24-Year-Old American Receptionist Marries “CEO” — 48 Hrs Later She Is AUCTIONED on the Dark Web – Part 3

Carmon spoke at dozens of events sharing Sophia’s story with permission, always emphasizing that trafficking victims were not naive or stupid, but were targeted by sophisticated criminals who studied psychology and manipulation.

The foundation’s website featured red flag indicators that people could use to evaluate whether their romantic relationships might be scams, including warning signs like rushed timelines, requests to keep relationships secret from family, partners who discourage contact with friends, financial requests or unusual control over money, reluctance to meet in public places or introduce you to their family, and inconsistencies in their stories or background information.

Rachel Kim became a spokesperson for Shared Hope International, a leading anti-trafficking organization, and traveled nationwide speaking to college students about trafficking awareness.

She emphasized that trafficking did not only happen to runaways or drug addicts, but could target educated professional women who made one mistake in trusting the wrong person.

Her presentations were powerful because she spoke candidly about her own experience, including the shame and self-lame she felt, making it clear that victims were not at fault for being manipulated by professional predators.

Olivia Thornton wrote a memoir titled Sold by Love that became a bestseller with proceeds funding survivor support services.

The book was optioned for film adaptation, bringing even more public attention to romance scam trafficking as a growing threat.

By June 2024, one year after Sophia’s rescue, significant changes had occurred both personally for the survivors and systemically in anti-trafficking efforts.

Sophia, Rachel, and Olivia held a private memorial service for the nine victims from Petrov’s operation who remained missing.

They placed flowers at the Arizona Capital Memorial Garden and committed to continuing advocacy until all missing women were found or their fates were known.

The FBI maintained active investigations into the nine missing victims, but acknowledged that recovering them was becoming increasingly unlikely as time passed.

Some families held memorial services without bodies, trying to find closure despite the uncertainty.

The publicity around the Petrov case led to meaningful systemic changes.

The Arizona legislature passed Sophia’s law in April 2024, requiring dating platforms to implement stronger identity verification procedures and mandating law enforcement training on romance scam trafficking indicators.

The law increased criminal penalties for trafficking through fraud and deception and allocated funding for victim services and prevention education.

Similar legislation was introduced in other states.

The FBI created a romance scam trafficking task force led by agent Michael Torres, specifically focused on identifying and dismantling operations that used romantic manipulation to traffic victims.

The task force coordinated with major dating platforms to develop artificial intelligence systems that could detect suspicious behavior patterns suggesting trafficking recruitment.

Dating platforms implemented significant safety improvements following the lawsuits and publicity.

Elite Match and other major dating apps now required users to verify their identities through governmentissued ID and facial recognition technology before creating profiles.

They implemented AI monitoring systems that flagged accounts exhibiting suspicious patterns, such as creating multiple profiles with different names, asking for money early in relationships, pressuring matches to move conversations off platform quickly, or exhibiting other warning signs consistent with romance scams.

platforms partnered with anti-trafficking organizations to display warning banners, educating users about manipulation tactics and encouraging them to report suspicious behavior.

These changes, while not perfect, contributed to a measurable decrease in romance scam trafficking cases in the following years.

In May 2024, the FBI announced Operation Heartbreak, a nationwide crackdown on romance scam trafficking rings that had been developed based on intelligence gathered from the Petrov case.

The operation resulted in 47 arrests across 12 states, the recovery of 23 victims, and the dismantling of several trafficking networks using methodologies similar to Petrov’s operation.

The success of Operation Heartbreak demonstrated that the Petrov case had been not just an isolated criminal enterprise, but a symptom of a larger problem requiring coordinated national response.

The traffickers arrested in Operation Heartbreak shared common characteristics with Petrov.

They were often charming, multilingual, technologically sophisticated criminals who had studied psychology and manipulation tactics specifically to target vulnerable women through online platforms.

Sophia Martinez enrolled at Arizona State University in August 2024, pursuing her degree in social work with a specialization in trauma counseling.

She received a full scholarship from a trafficking survivor advocacy organization that had been moved by her story.

Her goal was to become a licensed clinical social worker specializing in helping trafficking survivors heal from trauma.

The journey through college was challenging as academic stress triggered anxiety and some course material about trauma was personally difficult to engage with.

But Sophia found purpose in the work, believing that her own experience, as devastating as it had been, gave her unique insight into helping other survivors.

She connected with professors conducting research on trafficking recovery and began to see herself not just as a victim, but as someone who could contribute to the larger effort to combat trafficking and support survivors.

Carmon Martinez’s Truth in Romance Foundation grew to include 15 chapters across the United States by 2025, educating over 500,000 people about romance scam warning signs and contributing to trafficking prevention legislation in eight states.

The foundation’s work was credited with preventing an estimated 200 trafficking attempts through education and early intervention.

People who had attended foundation presentations or visited the website reported suspicious relationships to authorities before they could escalate to trafficking.

And several of these reports led to arrests of predators who were targeting new victims.

Carmon received awards from multiple anti-trafficking organizations recognizing her advocacy work.

But she consistently said the only recognition that mattered was preventing other mothers from experiencing the terror she had felt when Sophia disappeared.

Rachel Kim’s advocacy work expanded internationally when she was selected to serve on the president’s inter agency task force to monitor and combat trafficking in persons.

In this role, she influenced federal policy on trafficking prevention, prosecution, and survivor support.

She also published academic research on trauma recovery for trafficking survivors, contributing to the professional literature that informed treatment approaches.

Rachel married in 2026 and had two children, finding peace and normaly after the trauma and demonstrating that survivors could indeed rebuild their lives even after devastating experiences.

Olivia Thornton’s memoir, Sold by Love, was translated into 23 languages, and the film adaptation was released in 2027, raising $15 million for anti-trafficking organizations.

Olivia was invited to speak at the United Nations about global trafficking issues, using her platform to advocate for international cooperation in combating trafficking networks.

5 years after Sophia’s rescue in June 2028, significant changes had occurred both for the individual survivors and for broader anti-trafficking efforts.

Sophia Martinez, now 29 years old, graduated with her master’s degree in social work and began working at a trafficking survivor treatment center in Phoenix.

She specialized in complex trauma therapy and trafficking recovery, using her professional training combined with personal experience to help other women heal.

She had also become engaged to Christopher Park, a therapist she met through survivor advocacy work.

Their relationship developed slowly over two years, built on honesty and mutual understanding of trauma.

Christopher had been patient with Sophia’s trust issues and triggers, supporting her healing without pressuring her.

And Sophia had learned that love did not have to be a whirlwind to be real.

Carmen Martinez’s Truth in Romance Foundation had grown into a national organization with significant impact.

The foundation’s educational programs had reached millions of people through school presentations, community workshops, online resources, and social media campaigns.

Dating platforms partnered with the foundation to develop safety features and warning systems.

Law enforcement agencies used foundation materials to train officers on identifying romance scam trafficking.

Most significantly, the foundation’s work had contributed to a 34% decrease in romance scam trafficking cases nationally over 5 years, according to FBI statistics.

The organization had also provided direct support services to over 1,000 trafficking survivors, including therapy funding, legal assistance, job training, and housing support.

The technology improvements in trafficking prevention had been substantial.

Artificial intelligence systems could now identify potential trafficking recruitment patterns on social media and dating platforms with increasing accuracy.

Blockchain analysis tools allowed law enforcement to trace cryptocurrency transactions related to trafficking even through complex laundering schemes.

Dark web monitoring by international law enforcement agencies had led to the shutdown of multiple trafficking marketplaces and the arrest of dozens of administrators and buyers.

The dark market auction site where Sophia had been listed had been permanently dismantled through a coordinated interpole operation that resulted in arrests across six countries.

Roman Pro Petrov remained in Florence ADX maximum security prison serving his life sentence without possibility of parole.

He had filed multiple appeals all of which were denied at every level of the federal court system.

His conviction was affirmed by the 9inth Circuit Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court declined to hear his petition.

Petrov had refused all media interview requests, maintained his lack of remorse, and according to prison reports, showed no signs of rehabilitation or acknowledgement of his crimes.

He would die in prison, isolated from human contact.

His legacy being the destruction of 27 women’s lives and the systemic changes implemented to prevent others from following his path.

Marcus Brennan was serving his 35-year sentence at Federal Correctional Institution, Tucson.

He had participated in prison education programs and expressed remorse in several prison interviews, claiming he had been corrupted by greed and now understood the devastation his actions had caused.

His earliest possible release date was 253, by which time he would be 78 years old.

Victor Sakulov and Dmitri Klov were serving their sentences in separate federal facilities.

Both maintaining their claims that they had been low-level employees who did not fully understand they were participating in human trafficking.

Arena Vulov was released to a halfway house in 2035 after serving 12 years with good behavior, then immediately deported to Ukraine and permanently barred from returning to the United States.

Of the nine women from Petro’s operation who had been missing at the time of his arrest, four were eventually located and recovered between 2025 and 2027 through continuing FBI investigations and interpol cooperation.

These women had been trafficked to various international locations and held in situations ranging from forced labor to sexual exploitation.

Their recoveries were celebrated as small victories, though the trauma they had endured could never be fully healed.

Five women remained missing, presumed deceased or lost in trafficking networks so deep that even extensive international law enforcement cooperation could not locate them.

Their families continued advocacy for missing persons resources and maintained hope for information about their loved ones fates.

On a warm June evening in 2028, 5 years to the day after her rescue, Sophia Martinez sat in the backyard of her mother’s house at 4821 Desert Rose Lane with Carmen, Diego, Christopher, Natalie, Rachel, and Olivia.

They were celebrating multiple things.

Sophia’s graduation with her master’s degree, her new job at the trafficking survivor treatment center, her engagement to Christopher, and most importantly, 5 years of survival and healing.

Sophia looked around at the people she loved and felt gratitude for the second chance at life she had been given.

The Sophia who had swiped right on Alexander Westbrook’s dating profile 5 years ago seemed like a different person.

Naive and trusting in ways that now felt impossible.

But that woman had not been stupid or weak.

She had been targeted by a professional predator who specialized in exploiting human needs for love and connection.

Sophia thought about the journey from victim to survivor to advocate, about how she had transformed her trauma into purpose by helping other women heal from similar experiences.

She acknowledged that her healing was ongoing and probably would never be complete.

She still had nightmares sometimes, still struggled with trust, still felt anxiety in situations that reminded her of those six days in captivity.

But she had also found strength she never knew she possessed.

Had learned that survival was an active choice made every day and had discovered that speaking truth about her experience could prevent others from suffering similar fates.

As the sun set over Phoenix and her loved ones laughed about something Diego had said, Sophia felt a moment of genuine peace.

She was here.

She was alive.

She was surrounded by people who loved her authentically, and tomorrow she would go to work helping another trafficking survivor begin their own journey toward healing.

The documentary of Sophia Martinez’s story, which aired nationally in 2028, concluded with statistics and resources for viewers.

Romance scam trafficking affected thousands of people annually in the United States with women aged 20 to 35 being the most common targets, though men were also victimized.

The average relationship duration before trafficking occurred was 6 to 12 weeks, just long enough to establish trust, but not long enough for victims to truly know their partner.

Warning signs included rushed relationship timelines, isolation from family and friends, partners who discouraged or prevented contact with loved ones, financial requests or unusual control over money, reluctance to meet in public places or to introduce the partner to family, inconsistencies in stories or background information, and pressure to make major life decisions like marriage or relocation very quickly.

The documentary emphasized that trafficking victims were not weak or stupid, but were targeted by sophisticated criminals who studied human psychology and manipulation tactics.

Well, it noted that Sophia’s courage in sharing her story had contributed to systemic changes, including improved dating platform safety features, better law enforcement training, stronger anti-trafficking legislation, and increased public awareness.

Most importantly, it provided resources for viewers who might be in dangerous situations or who suspected someone they knew was being targeted.

The National Human Trafficking Hotline number one 3737 was displayed prominently.

The Truth in Romance Foundation website truthinromance.

org was provided for educational resources and survivor support information.

The documentary ended with a direct appeal.

If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, call 911 immediately.

Trust your instincts.

Protect yourself and others.

And remember that help is available.

Sophia Martinez’s story was one of horror and trauma, but also of resilience, survival, and the power of advocacy to create change.

She had been targeted, manipulated, and nearly destroyed by a predator who saw her as merchandise.

But she had survived, spoken truth about her experience, contributed to the arrest and conviction of her traffickers, and helped create systemic changes that protected other vulnerable people.

5 years after her nightmare began with a swipe on a dating app, Sophia was building a life of purpose and meaning, proving that even the darkest experiences could be transformed into light for others.

Her legacy would not be as a victim, but as a survivor who turned trauma into strength and who refused to let her suffering be meaningless.

And somewhere across the country, women who had heard her story and recognized warning signs in their own relationships made different choices, avoided similar traps, and remained free because Sophia Martinez had been brave enough to share her truth with the world.

Hi there.

I’m Gemma Bath, and you’re listening to True Crime Conversations.

Just a few weeks ago, an American serial killer was sentenced to life without parole.

It brought to an end a case that spans decades.

A case we covered in detail on this podcast in 2024, when there were only charges involved.

To recap, in 2011, a total of 11 human remains were found on or around Gilgo Beach on Long Island, New York.

In 2023 and 2024, one man was charged with murdering seven of them.

His name is Rex Heuermann, and he was a local architect who hid in plain sight for years before his eventual arrest in July 2023.

He’d been using up to 100 burner phones to lure women, mainly sex workers, before torturing them, killing them, and burying them.

Some were dismembered.

The women were aged between 20 and 34, and they were killed between 1993 and 2010.

Their names were Sandra Costilla, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Maureen Brainard-Barnes, Melissa Bartholomew, >> >> Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello.

We now know of an eighth victim, Karen Vergata, killed in 1996, who Heuermann admitted to murdering earlier this year.

To understand more about the evidence police found that led them to Heuermann, how they caught him, and more about the victims, I suggest dipping back into our original episode.

It’s linked in our show notes.

But in the meantime, we asked our original guest, Alexis Linkletter, who has a podcast called Unraveled, unpacking this case in detail, to come back on our show and fill us in on the latest from court.

Here she is.

Alexis, last time we spoke, it was October 2024.

At that point, Rex Heuermann had been charged with six murders.

And then, a few months after our interview, there was a seventh murder charge.

Were you expecting that momentum to continue because there were 11 bodies found in and around Gilgo Beach? >> I was expecting that momentum to continue.

I had always been of the mind that all of the remains found along Ocean Parkway were connected to Rex Heuermann.

Um but in the months that followed, I discovered that I was wrong about that.

>> Can you tell us a bit about that because two of the three remaining murders that we have an attributed were attributed to someone else.

>> Correct.

So, there were two victims who had long been unidentified and they were known as Peaches and Baby Doe.

And they were linked genetically in, I believe, around like the early um the early side of like the 2010s, um they were able to link them genetically and confirm that they were a mother and daughter.

Now, the remains were found really far apart from each other.

The mother’s torso was found in an area close to New York City where her appendages were found along Ocean Parkway.

And the toddler was found along Ocean Parkway about 250 ft from the remains belonging to a woman named Valerie Mack who Rex Heuermann was charged with.

Now, a little while after um Rex Heuermann was charged with that seventh victim, these two victims were identified as Tanya Jackson is the mother and Tatiana Dykes is the baby.

And not long after that, um the neighboring county to where the Long Island serial killer case basically is unfolding, which is called Suffolk County, the neighboring county in a different jurisdiction, charged a different man with the murder of Tanya Jackson who was known as Peaches.

Nobody has been charged for the baby.

Um and presumably I mean we think obviously they believe if this man killed the mother they killed the child as well.

So it was a big shock to everybody familiar with the case.

I don’t think anyone was expecting that.

Um I’m still in shock over it because there are so many coincidences tied to where these remains are found.

I find it really hard to believe that two different people would have chosen such precise locations for this.

>> And then the the third victim known as Asian Doe no one has been charged over that death.

>> No one has been charged with the death of Asian Doe.

There is a renewed push once again to try to figure out who they are.

Although when I was attending in court the plea hearing for Rex Heuermann.

So when he pled guilty there was a giant press conference afterwards and one of my colleagues asked the district attorney whether or not the DA believed that Rex Heuermann could be responsible for the murder of Asian Doe.

And the district attorney has sort of like an interesting personality but he said this to my colleague.

He said it doesn’t matter what I believe it matters what I can prove.

And it kind of made us feel like they believe he did that.

They haven’t proven it yet and especially because in these batches of evidence that the district attorney was sharing with the public along the way, you know, over the three years since he’d been arrested to go along with all the new indictments there are many many Google searches that have been provided to the public that Rex Heuermann made and a lot of them were about Asian victims.

And a lot of them were about Asian trans victims, which many people believe that Asian Doe was living their life as a woman because they were biologically male but found in women’s clothing.

>> Originally, Human was going to trial.

That was what we’ve been waiting for.

He’d plead not guilty.

It was shaping up to be enormous.

The sheer scope of you know, the number of victims, the years he was active, the evidence.

Can you kind of help paint that picture because at one point his defense team wanted five different trials? Like this was going to be huge.

>> It was going to be huge because with every new arrest, I mean, with every new indictment they made, you know, he was indicted for the murder of a woman named Sandra Castilla.

She was murdered in 1993.

Prior to that, the earliest victim we all thought that he was responsible for was 1996.

So, the timeline of when he was murdering kept broadening.

And so did the MO.

Um a lot of these victims were dismembered.

Some of them were not.

Um with Sandra Castilla, the woman that he was indicted for the seventh victim, um she had sharp force injuries and was left in the woods, not where any of the other victims were found.

For a long time everyone thought a different serial killer was responsible.

So, for that reason, we’re talking so many geographic areas, so many different MOs.

And his attorney did attempt to sever the trials into five separate trials.

He attempted several times to get evidence thrown out because the evidence against him is vast as well, but there was new DNA technology that was used in a lot of this DNA analysis.

So, it was going to be huge.

That’s why I mean, it took 3 years, all of the pre-trial hearings.

It was going to be a massive trial and it was going to be complicated, but the evidence against him is overwhelming.

So, I think he saw the writing on the wall.

>> Did you think Huermann was going to change his plea? That that is something that he would do? >> Um my instinct was no, but I heard early on from a source that he was considering that because I was of the the mind that well, what does he have to lose? You know, we don’t have the death penalty in New York State.

So, why not? Why not sit there through the attention and the media circus and soak all of that in.

I didn’t see a downside for him.

But, the more I’ve unders- gotten to know sort of his life through interviews with people who knew him and I’ve you know, developed a friendship with Rex Huermann’s wife wife’s attorney.

His name is Bob Macedonia and I talked to him quite frequently.

I realized that people like Huermann are much more on a spectrum than I believed initially.

And that he did appear to do this to spare his own family further embarrassment because a lot more evidence was going to be paraded out publicly had he gone to trial.

And I think a lot of that was going to make things look way worse.

So, weirdly, I mean, I didn’t think men like him were capable of caring about their families.

But, it seems to some degree he is or at least he’s capable of making these decisions to control a narrative around him.

>> Because in the last year or so, we have learned a lot more about Huermann’s wife and daughter in particular because they spoke to a documentary, right? What did you learn about them seeing that? [clears throat] >> Wow, so I was in that documentary um and I was fascinated.

You know, we have never seen the aftermath of an arrest of a serial killer who was living a double life that up close and personal before.

And that deal for them came together so quickly.

So, we really saw them in shock at first in total denial.

Um So, what I’ve learned about that family is that his wife had no idea.

Their marriage was very traditional as far as like their gender roles.

She didn’t ask questions.

He was the breadwinner.

He went to the city.

He commuted about an hour and a half each day.

He had kind of a separate life in Manhattan.

And because he sort of had control of their household and relationships, he would buy her a ticket to go somewhere and say you’re going on this trip, bring the kids.

And he was doing these things when she wasn’t home.

Um it’s hard to believe that someone could hide that much from their spouse and children, but it seems he has.

And the timeline fits together where he murdered a woman days before he married her.

And he was murdering far long before he married her.

So, in my opinion, I think he chose her cuz he knew he could get away with this with the type of personality she had.

>> Well, he certainly has been hiding in plain sight for decades, so that wouldn’t be a surprise.

>> No.

>> Can you talk us through how news of this plea deal played out? How close to trial was he? And how did you find out it was happening? You said you had a bit of an inkling.

>> Oh, yeah, I knew beforehand.

I had heard from a source long before, probably, you know, 6 months before it actually happened.

And I asked, you know, the DA at one of the court appearances about it, you know, during one of the press briefings afterwards, and then people started asking about it, saying, “Oh, is that really on the table? Is that really going to happen?” And then the rumors kept circulating.

Um so, I knew.

And the trial, I think, was going to take place I mean, they were talking about 2026, but I mean, it’s hard to know.

I mean, the judge was getting impatient with all of the the pre-trial um hearings.

But, you know, probably probably a handful of months out the trial was set to start.

>> Did we know that he was going to admit to an eighth victim as part of that plea deal? >> We suspected it.

>> Right.

>> Um we didn’t know for sure until we were there until it happened.

But, everyone suspected that he murdered Karen Vergata.

That’s the woman he admitted to killing and, you know, that was part of the deal.

I always believed that he was responsible for her murder.

So, a lot of us who followed the case suspected that, but we weren’t sure till that day.

>> Can you tell us what the actual plea deal that he agreed to was? >> Yeah, so he [snorts] admitted to the victims he was charged with killing, seven of them, and then he admitted to Karen Vergata, who he was just accepting responsibility for.

And in return, he is receiving three consecutive life sentences.

He cannot be prosecuted any further for any of these eight victims.

However, he can be prosecuted if any other murder victims are linked to him in the future, like when his DNA is put in CODIS.

If there are any other hits, he can be prosecuted for any other any other crimes, which again makes me think that the district attorney believes there are more victims.

And what’s odd and what really ruffled some feathers was that part of this deal was that he is to cooperate with the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit, which means he’s going to be interviewed by the FBI, and he part of the deal is that he’s supposed to be completely candid and honest.

But, a serial killer doesn’t care about deals or what their their commitments.

We can never know whether he’ll be telling the truth.

And I think that bothered a lot of people, too, because he’s fascinated by the FBI.

They found a copy of Mindhunter in his house and his planning document.

He was taking notes from Mindhunter.

” And if you’re not familiar, Mindhunter was written by a former FBI agent named John Douglas, who basically was a founding member of the FBI’s Behavioral Sciences Unit and coined the term serial killer.

So, a lot of people think that Rex Heuermann’s very excited by this and it’s giving him some narcissistic validation.

>> It’s hard because I can see why people would be upset by that.

But then on the other side, we do need to learn from people like this so that we can catch them in the future and stop them in the future.

>> Yeah, there is value in it, I think, especially because serial killers like Rex Heuermann are very rare.

>> Mhm.

>> There are other kind of serial killers, you know, there used to be more, you know, but because of technology, serial killers operating through digital means like Rex Heuermann was, bringing women into his house to murder them.

I mean, that’s not really happening anymore.

Um the most recent serial killer prior to his arrest was, I think, the Golden State Killer and he stopped murdering in 1986.

But then, you know, he murdered 10 people and then it was cold, right? And they didn’t know who he was.

But for people to be murdering into 2009, 2010 the way he was, it’s highly highly unusual now.

So, I think, yeah, I think the FBI wants to understand like the compulsive nature of his crimes because he didn’t really have the self-preservation and the the self-control to stop when he should have.

>> And the fact that he got away with it for that long, given the world we live in and how connected we are and, you know, the internet, it it is quite unbelievable, really.

>> It’s really disturbing.

It’s really disturbing and, you know, because he stopped in 2010, it really would have been impossible.

You know, now with the way our phones are cameras are everywhere tracking, I think it he really got lucky in that time period because he was using burner phones and he was using, you know, sock puppet emails, you know, fake email accounts.

But that’s still now, I feel like if someone was doing that right now, they’d be caught.

So, it’s unusual.

>> Which is good, we should say.

>> Yes, we That’s very good.

>> Up next, Alexis takes us inside Houlihan’s plea hearing, describing the atmosphere in the courtroom and what he said during the proceedings.

You arrived at the court for the plea hearing at 4:45 am to be there while it all unfolded, which means you did get to see everything.

What was that experience like? What was that room like when you walked into it? >> So, for the sentencing or for the plea hearing? >> Plea hearing.

>> So, the plea hearing, um, it was a really it was strange.

Like, it was more intense than the sentencing.

It was a longer day.

It was really stressful.

And people were there for I mean, we were there for like hours and hours and hours.

Um, it was Yeah, it was intense, you know, it was strange It’s It was strange that he was admitting it.

It’s just it’s all just very shocking.

I still can’t believe that he did it and they caught him and he admitted it.

>> Did he verbally admit it in that hearing? >> So, what he did was he provided an allocution and sometimes allocutions are the deal that is made is that they’re going to go into detail about what they did there on the spot.

It’s my understanding that prior to his plea, he did what was called a proffer, which you basically admit everything.

Um, it can’t be used against you in court.

It’s just for it to strike a plea deal.

But in court, he did an allocution with yes or no answers or one-word answers.

So, the DA would ask, you know, did you do this? Did you cause the death of Megan Waterman or Melissa Bartholomew on this date? Yes, he would say, and then they would say, by what means? And he would say, strangulation.

And they did that eight times in a row.

Um but he wasn’t required to go into any further detail.

He really just admitted that he did it and said how he did it.

>> And the families were all there to hear that? How did they react? >> I’m not sure all the families were there.

Um you know, it’s very emotional.

You know, I I still I don’t know how the families do it, you know, sitting close to a man who took the life of your daughter or sister.

It’s like the thought’s unbearable.

Um the families are strong and do everything with grace.

So, there are things that are said, you know, um especially during the sentencing.

It was a lot of things were said by the family in the room.

Um but yeah, no, it was it’s devastating to witness, you know, and you don’t wish it on anyone.

>> The plea hearing was obviously the first step.

Then we had the sentencing.

Did you, as someone that has worked on this case for so long, did you think that that plea hearing gave you or anyone there closure? >> Um no, I don’t think I don’t think closure is possible, you know? It’s like with something so senseless, um and something so pathetic I mean, he’s so pathetic.

It’s like he’s this giant man targeting small women to feel powerful and in control.

And it’s what he did wasn’t hard.

What he did was cowardly, you know? So, I think it’s just I can’t imagine closure is ever going to be had.

It’s like we don’t know the rest of it.

We’ll never know, but I think for the families, it’s like for them it was a demarcation line, like, I’m done with you.

I’m going to be focusing on my loved one’s memory, and now I don’t have to think about you anymore cuz you’re going to going to be in a cage.

>> After court, there were a huge number of press conferences.

His defense, his wife, who we hadn’t really heard from, the DA.

What stood out to you the most from that flurry of press conferences? >> So, his wife, Alissa Rurup, did address the media.

You know, she hasn’t done much of that.

And what I thought was really interesting is like the second she was done, she had a prepared statement that she read from.

And immediately reporters were questioning again, how could you not know? How did you not know what was happening right in front of you? And there is still so much suspicion looming over her.

And what I want to keep conveying is that, you know, it’s unbelievable for people that she couldn’t have known.

But clearly she didn’t, because if the district attorney had evidence that she had knowledge or or was involved, he would have delighted in charging her.

So, they have gone every over every shred of evidence.

Her cell phones, her computers, there’s just no indication that she knew.

And I I think what I don’t think she should be blamed for not knowing, but I do think that she do is scare people.

Um that you could be living with someone lying to you to that degree.

I mean, she was.

And she’s not the first woman to be duped by a serial killer like this.

>> Well, she really is a form of a victim in all of this, too.

She’s had her life ripped to shreds as well.

>> She has, and you know, she starts as a victim, right? And then for every decision she makes since the arrest, it’s hard to blame her for all of it.

You know, the shock, trauma, desperation, processing this.

I don’t know that my decisions would be sound.

I don’t know that I would be able to trust my instincts about anything.

Um people think her participating in the documentary that the optics were poor there.

Maybe they were.

But maybe she was out of options.

It’s just really hard to judge her after the shock and trauma of these revelations that she was exposed to.

>> Let’s talk a bit about the sentencing that only happened a week ago from when we’re talking.

>> Yeah.

>> I want to start with Herman because we did hear briefly from him.

You mentioned the word cowardly before.

I feel like that kind of needs to be repeated again here with what he said, right? >> Yeah, so everyone was wondering whether or not he would speak because the defendant is often given that opportunity.

And when he said yes, everyone was surprised and he he began to speak and the judge yelled at him.

The judge was very intense and told him to stand up.

So then there was this like awkward 5 seconds where he’s like trying to stand up and he began speaking and he said something to the effect of, you know, and I’m paraphrasing, “My words have no meaning.

I am responsible for the words that were said today.

I’m going to leave it there.

” And he sat back down and the judge looked at him sort of annoyed and said, “You know, I know you’re probably sorry for what you put your family through, but are you a little sorry for what for murdering these innocent women?” And he sort of was like, “Yeah.

” But it was so hollow and strange.

It’s like, why say anything at all? I couldn’t understand.

>> Did he look remorseful at all? >> No, he does not care.

This man could not care less.

>> Yeah.

>> It’s not funny at all.

It’s just this man doesn’t care.

He would have done it a million more times.

After he murdered Melissa Bartholomew, he called to torture her family.

Like this guy loves hurting women.

And this guy does not feel bad about it.

It doesn’t matter that he has a daughter their age of when he was killing them.

It doesn’t matter that he’s married to a woman.

He doesn’t care.

>> In the sentencing, we also had the chance to hear from the victims.

That’s their chance to stand up and tell this man what they’ve done to their lives in the form of a victim impact statements.

Was that emotional hearing from so many family members in that courtroom? >> Yeah, it was unbelievable.

Um it was it was long, too.

It was, you know, I think there were about 16 total.

And yeah, some some made you like want to give them a high five cuz they just said the exact right thing that you know just hit him where it hurts.

You know, these men are narcissists.

Um so, one of the victims’ cousins, her name is Jasmine Robinson, basically went over the planning document that Rex Heuermann had written in 2000 about like, “Don’t leave DNA behind.

Don’t leave hair behind.

” And she’s like, “Well, you didn’t do that.

You couldn’t do that.

” And totally just like mocked him.

And you could tell he was getting like so mad.

Um but every single one was compelling.

Some made you cry.

Some made you furious for how articulate they were in explaining just the devastation um what this had done to their lives.

You know, Megan Waterman’s daughter spoke, and it’s just she lost her mom when she was two, and she is left with this like, “What Who would I have been? What would I have my my life have been like had I not had my mom ripped from me?” And I think that’s a really valid um question, and it’s so unfair.

>> I read that there was even applause when he was taken from the room.

>> Oh, there was more than that.

There was applause.

Um, there was applause.

There were screams from the family saying, “I can’t wait till you get raped in jail.

” Then they all started chanting ogre as he was walking out of the room.

And it was the whole thing was intense like that.

It was like the energy the entire hearing.

You know, one of the victims, um Melissa Bartholomew’s sister who received the calls the taunting calls that were made from her sister, her murdered sister’s phone, cuz he had her phone.

That’s how he called her family.

So, first it’s hope, right? She’s missing and now she’s calling me.

And um she said something like, “It’s been 17 years since we spoke.

” And then she’s like demanded that he look at her cuz he’s just been looking ahead like a coward.

Um there were a lot of intense moments during her during her impact statement, but it was very almost primal.

I don’t know how to explain it.

>> Is this over for you now? Do you think knowing that he is behind bars, he’s been sentenced with eight murders is this over for you? Because you know, we don’t know how many more there are out there.

You’ve been working on this case for so many years.

What does this mean for you? >> I don’t think it’s ever going to be over.

I think it’s part of who I am um because it’s not just about this killer and these victims, it’s about the way women are treated.

It’s about violence against women.

It’s about sex workers, the demonization of them and not the clients or the men who push them and force them and traffic them and make them do sex work, which is what was happening for the majority of these women, right? So, it’s never going to be over.

I’m always going to be speaking out about that.

And as long as there are victims I believe are connected to him like Asian Doll who haven’t seen justice I’ll always be monitoring and tracking.

Um, I wish I could do more.

You know, it’s kind of contingent upon what investigators do whether there’s any story left here.

So, I do feel like though this law enforcement team that has brought him to justice is phenomenal and I’m I’m sure they won’t stop if they believe he’s responsible for more.

But, it’s also not done for me because I have a book coming out about the case early next year.

So, I’m going to be probably talking about it for a while because like I said the implications it’s not him.

It’s society, you know, and I think that’s what I’m going to be talking about a lot.

>> Thank you so much Alexis.

We really appreciate your updates.

>> Of course.

>> Thank you to Alexis for joining us on this episode.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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Thanks so much for listening.

I’ll be back on Thursday with another true crime conversation.