Dubai Hospital CEO’s Affair With Filipina Nurse Ends In Tragedy When She’s Found Dead In Server Room – Part 3

If you think the 55 is over a four, five year time frame and he was in his 40s when he committed suicide.

We know the earliest that we’ve been able to track that he offended was at 17 years old.

It’s hundreds.

It’s hundreds and hundreds of victims.

And this brings us back to this is why we want to get his photo out there, not just his name.

This is why we are putting this photo out there is so that every one of those victims who did try and speak up and weren’t believed and we know of numerous of them um that they know they’re believed now and they are supported and really that you know like this guy was a really really horrible person.

Up next, LJ and Haley discuss how they discovered their abuser had died and whether it changed how they felt about getting justice.

As you’ve mentioned, he died by suicide in 2001.

And he died while on bail for child abuse charges.

So, he was actually finally facing around, you know, a dozen charges and then he died.

Did you guys know about that? When did you find out about that? I found out my mom got a we I didn’t live in Baitman’s Bay anymore.

I lived in CRA and my mom got a call from someone in community who knew that we’d attended that daycare.

And then she asked and eventually I disclosed what had happened.

But she didn’t get any call from the police or the council or anyone.

And uh when I went back to Baitman’s Bay at 18 and 19, I was clearly named as a victim.

Um and you know, it was it was a lot to sit there and see my name as an identified victim and know that know wholeheartedly that no one called her.

And like I said, I’ve I’ve got a big sibling group.

So at any point in time, like she deserved a phone call, >> you know, she deserved the police to knock on her door and say, “Hey, this is what’s happened and your child’s been named.

” Um, but you know the the responsibility was put on her and to get like a random phone call I can’t imagine what that would have been like for her or for any parent.

And from what I gather like this is a lot of how parents found out was through community not through formal um contact with agencies.

>> I’m confused as to why the police wouldn’t have continued to investigate because even if he died, there are victims here.

Oh, exactly.

And that is something that has really enraged us since I found out, which I think was around six or seven years ago, that I realized, and this was through contact with LJ, that he was never publicly named.

Um, and we found that out through newspaper articles, which essentially said, “We’ve been told we can’t name this man.

” Um, and you know, ironically within the same article, it says any victims that come forward can have counseling and you know, we’re offering all of these services.

Okay, well that’s fantastic.

At that time I was around 8 or 9 years old.

How was I knowing who I was contacting or you know I don’t read the newspaper.

>> Um, my family was not in Bman’s Bay anymore which meant they were not reading the newspaper where it was published.

So, at what point were they genuinely actually offering services and support to the families? It seems like a very empty offer when you say, “We’re not going to tell you the perpetrator’s name.

Um, we’re not going to tell you any uh information about him, but if you were his victim, please come and tell us and we’ll support you.

” I mean, excuse my French, but what a load of [ __ ] >> Yeah.

And again like it looks at that like the onus and responsibility on children to get help for abuse um when it was something that was done to them by adults and there are adults that a responsibility had a responsibility to protect them >> and it’s not a situation of well we don’t know who the perpetrator was or we don’t know who had contact with him.

This was a registered childare center where parents were receiving the child care subsidy for their children attending which means the council and the other uh state organizations had a very clear list of children that had had contact with a known predator.

So at that point um whether or not they knew that the all of these children had been exposed to abuse, they knew that they were at a very high risk of it and they still chose to not contact the families directly and offer that support.

>> Is that illegal? As far as you know, >> it should be.

>> It’s not.

Um it’s it’s just Yeah, it should be illegal and it’s unethical.

uh you know we could talk about like ethics and morals because they certainly were not considered at that time.

>> Yeah.

>> And we can’t even say like I think it’s really important to be here this is nothing about the time because there was legislation in place.

There were rules in place.

Organizations both state and nationally knew about institutional child sexual abuse.

It wasn’t like they’d never heard of this thing before.

It was documented.

They knew there were processes that could have been followed.

There were things that could have been done.

and they weren’t done for whatever reason.

>> Well, Nina Fenel, who you mentioned earlier, you wrote your original article with, she mentioned that the decision, you know, it goes further than that.

They decided not to reach out to schools, to local counselors, to places where other children were to try and spread the word, you know, help victims, support the community.

Like that’s a very Yeah, it goes further than just not ringing the list of names on the child care.

And the question I guess to that is who benefited from that because victims didn’t benefit.

The families impacted didn’t benefit.

>> There was only one person at that point.

>> I mean the perpetrators dead.

So it didn’t you know there was no risks there of naming the wrong person.

At this point there is only one group of people that benefited and you know really it was completely the wrong thing to do.

And it what it meant was so many victims have had not had the opportunity to access support and heal from this experience when they could have, you know, in early childhood when really that offer of support would have been so much more significant than now as adults where we’re here trying to fight for our own justice, spending six, seven years in a court case trying to fight for accountability.

I mean, we shouldn’t have to.

>> As a victim survivor, something that I’ve really struggled with throughout my whole life is wondering who I could have been.

Had not only had this had not happened, but had I got the support needed.

You know, my life would have been infinitely easier and I would have been able to have opportunities.

uh my trajectory, my ability to function in the world would have been so much different because I know now from my own professional experience that recovery and healing starts with safe places to have conversations and to talk about it and have, you know, even if it’s not justice, but some sort of accountability and acknowledgement that it happened.

And without having him named, most of us never got that.

And then we had to move through the world alone in our grief and in our pain without even being able to Google this man to find out if it was real.

I can’t tell you the amount of times.

And I thought, did I just make this up? Like, is this not a real thing? And it wasn’t until I found other victim survivors and I was like, no, actually, this really happened because you can Google um sex offenders from like the 60s and their names come up, >> but David’s didn’t come up.

Not even so much as like a anything anywhere.

Can you expand on on what you mean for both of you on how this abuse and this the trauma that followed affected you into your teenage years and adulthood and how it kind of shaped your experiences? >> For sure.

I mean, I left school in year nine.

I have struggled with uh I struggled with substance use well into my 20s.

I’ve struggled with suicidality and self harm.

Um, I’ve chronic social anxiety.

Um, all of my study I’ve done now.

Like I’m lucky I’ve turned my life around.

I’m an academic now, but I had to I went back to uni in my 30s.

I haven’t, you know, I’ve struggled with relationships with my family.

I’ve experienced intimate part intimate partner violence.

Um, and these all of these things can be like deeply linked into the experiences of child sexual abuse and not being able to access support.

It’s really hard to move on with your life if you have nowhere to go.

Um, and you don’t know how to ask for help.

You don’t even know how to name what’s happened to you.

And you know, when we think about like we we started the conversation thinking about words like consent, uh, a really good way to not understand consent is if you’ve never had it.

And so then there’s risks of being like revictimized um, experiencing further abuse um, in multiple different settings.

And that has been my experience really up until I was in my 20s and met my husband and that’s a long time to suffer.

I you know and a lot of the similar experiences to LJ but another massive impact for me and it’s I think one that we’re slowly learning more about but it’s still not talked about often is um I’ve developed an autoimmune disease which when you go back and you look at the statistics is heavily linked to early childhood trauma to significant stress now it has progressed to a point now in my life at 34 years old where it’s attacking my bones and you know I need constant monthly treatment that is very hard to access that is not continual and is not always effective and essentially at some point where this disease progresses the um patient can end up in a wheelchair and lose mobility and that’s a very serious issue and that is worst case scenario yes but there are um like I said I’m young I’m very much on the younger end of people that should be suffering to the severity that I have this autoimmune and it is not something that I will ever recover from.

And of course that within itself, you know, with the anxiety and depression I already have from the abuse on top of dealing with, you know, the the physical manifestation of that, it’s it’s really significant.

>> People also don’t talk about how this impacts parenting.

you know, I’m super hypervigilant.

You know, my children aren’t really allowed out of my sight.

You know, like I’m super protective of them and they’re really good things to have, but being hypervigilant all the time is not good for your immune system.

It’s not good for your mental health.

It’s not good for your sleep.

It has lasting impacts and no one wants to walk around the world being like, are you one of them? >> I know that you’re both moms.

You also have kids, Haley.

How did you both kind of approach the idea of child care for your kids? Because I can imagine that would have been a very triggering idea to to conceptualize.

>> Oh, and it still is.

It’s still um the constant balance of trying to be a career mom but also not leave your children in the care of anybody um is a constant daily struggle.

And you know, my older child is um at the age where they want sleepovers and it’s something that I’m sorry, but we just don’t allow.

And you know, they want to be able to go on school camp.

I have allowed that, but the anxiety that I felt and had to I was pretty much incapacitated for the 3 days.

Um, and probably even a few days after because yeah, it’s just this constant fear that you can’t protect your children and also you can’t spot a pedophile and it only takes a short amount of time for someone to take advantage of your child.

I’ve spent 12 years working um in the sort of social work sector.

I’m a researcher now, but I worked in worked with families um in child protection.

So I really this is like encompassed my whole identity in life because I am fearful for my children but fearful for other people’s children.

I remember when I first enrolled my older daughter into into childare I was like I don’t want to just see working with children’s checks.

I want to know when people got their police checks done you know like I was really um heavy-handed I guess you would say on the on the daycarees that she went to.

um I really struggled if there was any male childare workers and not that there’s anything wrong with male childare workers but due to lived experience you’re always that little bit more worried um and like Haley when my daughter went on camp I gave her my um Apple Watch which is you’re not allowed to do but I was like I need to know that if she is not okay she can call us and then I just call the school all the time which you know for her is not ideal but you know we’re also not allowed like not you know not allowing sleepovers.

I heavily monitor technology and these are really good proect protective things and I would encourage parents to make sure they do their education and have knowledge and have understanding but it takes a toll on you as a parent because it’s this is no way to be.

Um, and even though we should all be aware of these things when you are a victim survivor of abuse and you have children, it’s something that you’re thinking about all the time, especially as they hit the ages you were when you first started being abused or any slight changes in behavior.

You know, you’re just that little bit more aware of risk.

>> Well, I’ve got two children currently in daycare.

I am not a victim survivor and it’s been something that’s been on my mind multiple times and I was hypervigilant while trying to pick a child care because as you said the amount of pedophiles that have been found in childare settings today last year the year before like in modern society is is unbelievable really.

Oh, and that’s why a a massive part of what LJ and I are trying to do is an overhaul of all of these safeguards which were meant to be in place in the ’90s and were in place but were not upheld and that were in place when all of these more recent um cases have come out.

We have these case studies now.

they should be looked at and we should identify what these cracks are and there’s been promises made um that things will change but nothing’s changed.

There’s no national working with children’s check.

Um you know it’s huge step in the right direction doesn’t solve things but it stops a lot of those perpetrators when you look moved from state to state and that is your first step in making that avoidable.

So you’re saying you’re saying that the working with children check is different in every state and territory which allows kind of abusers to manipulate the system.

>> If you say get have an allegation or a concern raised against you in Queensland >> and the investigation only just starts, you can relocate to Melbourne, get a working with children’s check and it won’t be automatically sent.

And you know the important thing to note here is I gave evidence in the Royal Commission into institutionalized sexual abuse.

One of the first and most important recommendations from that royal commission was a national working with children’s check and royal um and um reform around working with children’s check.

The royal commission happened 10 years ago that still has not been implemented.

There are many recommendations over half from the Royal Commission that have not been implemented and the Royal Commission looked at institutionalized sexual abuse over decades.

And the fact that these these um cases are still happening shows how important that reform was and it should have happened and it hasn’t.

And you know here in Victoria, I actually live in West Melbourne where Joshua Brown is located and he was um he’s the most recent case around um abuse in childcare.

My daughter went to one of the daycarees he attended.

Thank god nothing happened to her, but it hit our community really hard out here and the Victorian government has moved towards creating reform in a register.

But in my opinion, it’s it’s too little too late.

Like these things have been known.

They were clearly outlined in the Royal Commission.

And there’s really no excuse good enough as to why this reform hasn’t already happened.

We know it’s risk.

It’s clearly identified risk.

And there’s still no national working with children’s check.

>> It doesn’t feel like that hard a thing, that recommendation in particular, to put in place.

I’m confused as to why it hasn’t been put in place.

>> Maybe we need to ask the prime minister that question.

um because it there is really no excuse good enough and I know that there are many organizations that are advocating for reform such as the National Center for Araction and Child Sexual Abuse, Straight and Childhood Foundation, Snake like there are many national organizations that have been advocating for reform a really long time and we’re still here still having to have this discussion and all you have to Google is child abuse in daycare.

We’ve spoken about three cases here.

There are many, many more spanding over the last 10 years alone.

They just don’t all make it to the TV.

>> What does your advocacy for overhauling the system look like? I know that there’s a petition that was started by Nina Fenel.

That’s both of your faces.

I is that helping or how are you guys trying to overhaul the system? >> We need 20,000 signatures to be able to take this to the government.

um Nino is really driving us on the more logistical aspect of it.

But if we do get 20,000 signatures, we can start to open the door doors to a discussion around what’s needed in terms of reform around um the working with children’s check and training.

These are being advocated by multiple different victim survivors who were let down in various different settings due to this gap within working with children’s check.

So it’s important to note like we are one of many people advocating for this but it must start with government reform and ideally um an inquiry a national inquiry >> into the childare sector.

You know we are seeing individual states do versions of inquiries but we actually need a national response to this and remove the requirement of it being statebyst state because that’s half the reason we’re here in the first place.

You know there are many national standards.

Um this needs to be something that is prioritized.

You know, on average, um a working family spend $25,000 to send their child to daycare.

Um which is a requirement if you would like to work.

We need to make sure that that a child walks into a daycare and they are safe and no more like knee-jerk reactions.

Like in Victoria here, we’re talking about like no phones in daycarees, no iPads, cameras.

That’s all great.

A lot of centers have had those in place for a really long time.

It’s still not protecting kids.

So, there needs to be more done and whatever is done, it needs to be the same everywhere.

It’s amazing what you’re both doing fighting for the children of today, but in terms of justice in your own story, obviously your abuser is dead.

What does justice there look like? Are you able to get it by doing this fight elsewhere? Yeah, I think for myself uh at least justice is about accountability and in this situation we’re looking to hold the party that licensed and oversaw David Tuck and failed to undertake the appropriate checks.

And that’s not just prior to him being licensed, but that is for all of the years that he was licensed that um allegations were made.

Uh, in the end, if we can at least hold the council accountable, it paves uh, I guess a way for other operators to see that they can be held accountable because what we want to stop is the sweeping of under the rug.

It is at the moment easier for a childare service to move somebody on.

They’ve faced the repercussions of identifying identifying a predator.

Um, so And a big part of what we’re asking for is looking at um and whether that’s a financial punishment fine uh for not reporting.

There needs to be very clear reporting guidelines that individual centers and operators need to follow and if they don’t follow then they are then held accountable.

>> And for me I mean justice is a is a funny word because will we get justice? I don’t know.

But I would like accountability and I’d like there to be reform.

And I want all childare workers and teachers and anyone who works with children not feel like they risk there’s a risk in reporting um in terms of like will I lose my job? Will I get in trouble? Um you know what if I report and I’m wrong? like there needs to be conversations to h conversations that are had to make sure people feel empowered enough to report because this is what we need to happen and then have those reports be acted upon.

When you looked at the Joshua Brown case, which is the case in Western Melbourne, there are people who were like, I knew something or I thought something was wrong, but I didn’t say anything.

Even when I’ve worked within this sector, I’ve spoken to child protection, childare workers who were like, oh, I had an inkling, but I didn’t say anything.

And then it turned out, you know, the child was being abused.

We need to change that mentality.

If you see something, say something.

The bystander effect is is hurting so many people from women in domestic violence to children who are being abused.

We need to let go of that.

And if you see, if you even have a slight gut feeling, tell someone about it because children don’t have the language or the ability to tell someone.

That’s our jobs as the adults.

And then the other side of that is for parents and carers and teachers to have clear conversations with children about safety.

>> I was recently in Zimbabwe.

I’m working with a program that looks at the prevention of child sexual abuse.

They spoke so clearly to children about the right terminology for body parts, about what is consent, what is abuse in a really matter-of-act way.

And what they seen is that those children had a much higher rate of disclosure to adults because they had the damn language.

>> You know, you you and it’s hard and parents are scared, but if your child is being sexually abused and they know what a penis is and a vagina is, they’re way more likely to disclose.

And when they know that those aren’t dirty words that they’re going to get in trouble for, we we as adults have to reconcile why where why we’re scared of saying those words, why we’re scared of hearing them because that is we can’t stop child sexual abusers.

I wish we could, but no one’s sort of figured out that yet, but we can protect children by having frank and honest conversations.

And for me, maybe that’s what justice is, is a change in the way we communicate about abuse in general.

Even just uh I can’t help but think Kaylee when you’re telling us about bedwedding.

I’ve heard that numerous times now that child abuse survivors often show that sign.

So it’s like picking up on signs like that and using that as a conversation starter with your child to then have those conversations and knowing these kinds of you know like behavioral changes or or or things to pick up on to then start conversations with your kids.

>> 100%.

Uh there’s a lot of really good resources for parents to read and communicate to children.

So there’s a lot of um children’s books that I use with my own children, but then there’s also the education pieces for parents to understand and look out for the signs.

Uh I think the missing piece is more around if you do suspect, parents don’t know where to go and it’s not so simple.

And you know, the first time I was sat down and asked by my parent after this all came out, I said no.

I I I was still too afraid and too a confused to be able to disclose.

So I think it’s important um to understand that not every child wants to tell a parent.

Maybe they need um you know professional or you know a more private setting.

It’s um you can’t rely on parents to be able to get this information out of children in the appropriate way either.

But there’s also not a very straightforward way to access the information or the steps um to parents if they do sus suspect abuse.

So that is really I think a missing piece.

I’ I’d like to see investment to into services for children and parents who’ve experienced child sexual abuse so that when a child does come forward, parents know what to do, not just in terms of like reporting it to the police or child protection or the authorities, but also how to get help um how to help children recover and move through it.

um and how how to help parents do the same because it’s not easy for anyone in that instance when abuse has been um experienced.

But you know without support services the child ultimately continues to suffer lifelong pain.

>> You mentioned that there could be hundreds of victims out there of David Tux.

You’re both in your 30s.

You know, these are people in their 30s, potentially 40s, even older, that might have never told anyone what happened to them.

Do you have a message for them, having only recently shared your own stories? >> We believe you.

We believe you.

>> Thank you to LJ and Haley for joining us on this episode.

You can sign their petition, keep kids safe, at the link in our show notes.

They’re calling for an overhaul of working with children check schemes in Australia.

Make sure you’re following our show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify for updates on this story and all the stories we cover.

Thanks so much for listening.

I’ll be back next week with another true crime conversation.