When when you go over the Bob Lazar story, like what what do you how much of you how much of you cries [ __ ] How much of you is like >> I’m more on the H side? I think he’s the most credible whistleblower because he he >> didn’t profit from >> didn’t profit and they I mean they prosecuted him for run for running a prostitution ring, you know, >> which maybe he was, >> which I think he was.

[laughter] He he pled down to pandering, but he >> they also raided him during the Jeremy Corbell documentary.

While they’re filming the documentary, the FBI raided his facility.

>> Mhm.

>> And they said they were looking for something >> and supposedly he has a version or a a sample of stable element 115.

>> What? >> That’s supposedly Yeah.

And that’s supposedly what they were looking for.

Supposedly, he had gotten that from the lab.

and when when he was at S4 and that he had managed to smuggle out a a stable chunk of this element 115 and there was a video that George Knap had from back in the 80s where Lazar was demonstrating how this stuff bends light and you know what it does like it has weird effects.

>> How soon after that raid was 115 is now called Moscow.

How soon after that raid was 115 synthesized? I think it was synthesized in Russia.

Well, synthesized by a particle collider.

And so the the when they got it is a very temporary quickly dissolving form, but they proved its existence.

>> And supposedly what Lazar is saying, wherever these beings are from, they obviously have a completely different environment and they have a stable version of this this element.

>> Yep.

And this element is crucial to this gravity propulsion system that it’s a part of this reactor.

It gets bombarded with radiation, produces this gravity field, allows you to just slingshot through the the universe.

I >> I don’t know.

Are they working to stabilize it? You know, I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, man.

>> Why would they raid Bob Lazar? >> That’s so that’s that spectrum of believability.

Again, >> that’s the other thing that Bob said that I thought was really fascinating was that there was some documentation that they were uh showing him that claimed that we are the product of accelerated evolution.

>> He was shown a lot of [ __ ] and he doesn’t like talking about it because he doesn’t know if it’s just total [ __ ] nonsense, >> right? >> You know, he is sure that they showed him [ __ ] just to see if he’d [ __ ] say crazy [ __ ] >> right? To see if he’d talk.

all he all he cares about is the is what he saw, what he knows is real.

But if if you do just talk with him privately, they did show him, you know, a photograph of an autopsy of a being with a singular organ.

They told him that, yeah, the human genome had been altered, you know, um just all sorts of crazy [ __ ] And he just has no idea if it’s true or if it’s >> God, the whole thing is so it’s so wild.

I just wish, you know, if Bob’s lying, my god, what a great liar.

He’s amazing at it, >> right? >> And he’s been telling the same lie for 30 plus years.

And then there’s elements of it that how would he know that? Like, how would he know about element 115? I mean, element 115 when he was talking about it was theoretical.

>> Yeah.

He got lucky.

He’s the lucky He’s the luckiest guy I know.

He always chooses [ __ ] that ends up being [ __ ] right.

>> I know.

you know, gravity waves and like >> you know how these crap op like look man >> explain the one element 115 to people because we don’t people who don’t know what we’re talking about that haven’t seen the documentary or haven’t seen the podcast we did together >> so so the way Bob understood it was that there’s he was working on power and propulsion right so of one of these we call them flying saucers you know [ __ ] alien vehicle >> that looked like this one right here from design >> yeah on the you know, even like aerospace people are like, “Well, if if you know, it’s the most ingenious thing is the way he described it, powered.

” You know, people are impressed by it.

I’m like, maybe that’s just what he saw.

But anyway, so the 115 was the power source, he said.

And basically, you know, you put it in and it it releases antimatter and creates a gravity propulsion, a gravity, a gravitational field, and then you had directional threedirectional emitters.

Look, that’s how they think these things operate.

traveling faster than the speed of sound with no sonic boom all you know transmedium all domain the these things seem to defy typical propulsion it’s not outside of the realm of what we understand it’s outside of the realm of what we can replicate now one day we might catch up and this element 115 that Bob talked about powering this spaceship was only theoretical back in the late 1980s when he first started discussing it >> right we hadn’t synthesized it yet >> right well it wasn’t synthesizing it was uh it was created by a particle accelerator.

Right.

Exactly.

It really was detected >> cuz it was I think it was >> Right.

>> So we kind of synthesiz and that we smashed particles together and then we’re like oh for like a second there it was.

>> Yeah.

I think it’s a a fraction of a second.

>> Yeah.

And Bob always said that if he’s right if it was 115 that’s how he understood it to be.

If he’s right then we will someday, you know, be able to make a nominal amount of it that we’ll be stable.

that that’s you know what he says >> until something actually happens and my thought is like when something actually happens how will people handle it UFO whistleblower could get immunity under new amendment so this is what you were talking about >> yeah yeah absolutely and I mean the the thing is I I know some of the people doing this and they’re like you know they want some nominations man you know who should talk to them well you got your own [ __ ] logo you going buddy >> thanks brother >> yeah these are foundation cigar JRE three cigars.

They’re good.

Shout out to my friend Nick from Foundation Cigars, too, who hooked me up with that cabinet.

Got a full humidor up in this [ __ ] now.

>> Wow.

Thank [snorts] you.

>> Um, so, uh, so this element 115.

>> Yeah.

>> This is, uh, proven by a particle accelerator.

And Bob Lazar’s claim was that they had a stable, um, amount of this element 115 that had come from this other place.

And did they know where this other place was? where this element 115 supposedly had come from what another planet >> yeah I mean again this is like what he was told so he’s kind of allergic to but um you know he said that the documents said zeta verticuli like you know I guess a binary star system or something that’s what were in the documents now if that’s true or not look remember he thought it was the US he thought this vehicle was ours >> right >> and then he until he walked inside of it that’s his whole thing it blew him away you know It’s hard to buy what someone like Bob is telling you if you don’t know the person.

You see people in their lives, man.

>> Like what do you imagine being him and that actually happening to you and then you having to go back to reality, >> right? >> And tell people or not tell people, just live your life and have the burden of this information, the burden of this thought.

Just uh turn upside down the other way.

There you go.

Flip the top.

>> I got flip the top.

>> There you go.

And then pull down.

I mean, the burden of that kind of information when even discussing it, you seem like such a psycho, you know? Yeah.

>> Most people almost instantaneously, I mean, other than a real journalist like George Knap, most people are going to think you’re out of your [ __ ] mind.

>> Yeah.

They just dismiss you.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Why would you Why would you even do it? Like, what would be your motivation? What would you get out of that? >> Well, his motivation was he was seriously worried that they were going to take him out.

>> Yeah.

>> Because he knew so much and uh they had cut off of his for folks who don’t know the whole story.

Just give you a brief synopsis.

What happened was Bob allegedly was working on back engineering these aircrafts, these vehicles, these spaceships.

And uh in doing so, you have to have a very high level of clearance.

Well, with that high level of clearance comes complete government surveillance.

So, they monitor your phone calls, monitor everything.

Turns out Bob’s wife is having an affair.

So, they don’t tell Bob that his wife’s having an affair, but they cut off his job.

They’re like, “You’re too you too much of a potential to be emotionally unstable.

We can’t have you working on these top secret super sensitive things.

” >> Yeah, it’s logical.

>> Yeah.

Well, your life is probably going to fall apart.

Some bad [ __ ] Yeah.

>> So, he doesn’t know this.

And so he’s they don’t give him any information.

So he freaks out.

And so he starts telling his friends and he’s like, “Come with me.

I’ll show you the launch.

I’m not lying.

” >> People forget that.

>> Yes.

>> He he went out and he showed people a craft that didn’t look like any normal craft.

Come up right when he said it would.

>> Yeah.

>> Over a base that wasn’t even known then.

Really? Well, and a subbase, an area not Area 51 proper.

Again, he’s the luckiest [ __ ] in the world.

He did it three weekends in a row till he got caught, >> right? >> So, it’s just like, man, every time you try to call [ __ ] on him, I tried so hard on so many things, [ __ ] You people think I’m just some [ __ ] believer.

I’m not, bro.

>> The only thing that people have ever called [ __ ] on him is that he said he might have seen an actual alien, but he said he was walking down a hallway.

He looked through one of those little tiny windows that’s in a door.

you know, those little tiny like uh 12-in square windows.

And he peered in it quickly as he was walking by and it seemed like there was a small thing that was sitting on a chair and there’s people standing over it, but he doesn’t know if it was a doll.

He doesn’t know if it was.

And so in his mind, he’s like, “Fuck, did I see an alien? Like, what the fuck?” But he can’t go back.

It’s not like everything’s, if you work on top secret stuff, apparently everything’s very compartmentalized.

like the people that work on metallurgy don’t have access to the people that work on propulsion that don’t have access to the people that if there is a biological entity that they examine it >> which frustrated the [ __ ] out of him >> right >> they said that’s not how you do science >> it’s not how you do science and he says I wasn’t the most qualified person to be there maybe they hired me because they could easily dismiss me >> you know he’s like why didn’t we have better people on this you know people that were more so he was really frustrated and he said to me like he thought it was a crime against the scientific community, you know, to if they have this stuff like he says, you know, he says it was a a crime and, you know, he he talks about that thing through the window.

He’s so funny about it.

You know, I sat him down for long, you know, many sessions long, really trying to get at him, get it out of him.

>> Yeah.

>> He goes, “You know, Jeremy, I think they were just obsessed with measurements.

” I go, “What do you mean?” And he and he’s like, “Well, look, there was somebody in something in a chair, but it was small.

Maybe they were trying to just measure it to see if it would fit in a craft.

So that’s how he kind of gets around like did he see something or not? He doesn’t know.

>> Like it could have been a doll that they constructed that was roughly the same height as these things were.

>> He just doesn’t want to go there.

Right.

>> And so these creatures that were in this vehicle, if there were were creatures in this vehicle, >> there were three seats.

>> Yeah.

And he estimated they had to be how big? >> Your typical like what you think of as like a little gray alien man.

three, four feet, >> right? >> He said, “They look like they were made for children.

” >> The seats.

>> Yeah.

And so, look, and every time I try to be like dismiss Bob myself, there’s something that creeps in my mind.

I’m like, “Hold on, hold on.

” Like, I find out that he that he was telling the truth.

Like, recently, I had it verified that, you know, he did work at Area 51.

Like, I know I know I had a guy I found the guy after 30 years that that wouldn’t he wouldn’t talk with George, the guy that did a security clearance.

>> I found him.

I talked to him multiple times about this and he did clearance for Bob for the test site.

But even more recently from people that have position to access that information, it was confirmed.

I just want you to know he worked out there.

Now I have people that were out there that saw him on a Janet flight.

Bob worked out there.

>> And a Janet flight is those unmarked planes that would leave from the uh Vegas airport and head into Area 51.

>> That’s right.

And and uh you know, so here’s the deal, man.

Like it’s the cumulative evidence about Bob that I you know, as a friend of his now, like I you know, I have no reason to doubt him and all the evidence tells me that it happened exactly like he said and he’s explaining it to the best of his ability and to his own detriment.

Actually, before coming on your show, man, he’s probably the most hated dude.

For some reason, people go crazy about him.

Either love him or hate him.

>> I think your documentary turned a lot of people’s opinions about him as well.

Thank you brother.

>> But then having him on I mean some people still call [ __ ] They think like his migraines were convenient.

>> Oh come on.

You saw.

Yeah.

You saw.

>> But he was having him.

He was having him in the green room before we started going on.

He was very nervous about doing it.

>> Of course, man.

He’d been beat up his whole life about this [ __ ] Also, I gave him McDonald’s before.

I think his wife was super [laughter] pissed at me and I was like, “You give him a salad.

” No, he gets really like crushing migraines.

But you know, people that are going to call [ __ ] on that, we’re talking about [ __ ] UFOs.

If you’re going to call [ __ ] on a migraine, what are you even listening for? I I I didn’t feel like it was [ __ ] I felt like the whole thing was it was uncomfortable for him for sure, >> but it didn’t seem like he was lying, but you know, look, there’s some people that are really good at liars.

But usually when you’re really good at lying, you’ll lie about a lot of stuff.

>> Yeah, that’s the thing.

There’s a there’s a consistency in people’s lives.

And the deeper I got in, chilling with his mom, chilling with his family, chilling with friends that have known him forever, new friends, every single person, and he doesn’t talked about UFOs, by the way, like all that.

He never talks about that.

Just normal life situations.

>> The the the one thing they all said to me, Bob wouldn’t waste his [ __ ] time with making up a story.

And he’d probably make up a better one that in the rest he would.

And Bob always says that.

He goes, “Man, I wish I could fill the voids for people.

” He goes, “It’s a horrible [ __ ] story.

” story, but he it happens to be what happened, >> right? >> If I was making one up, he goes, “Man, I got some other cool ideas.

” You know what I mean? >> Right.

Of course.

Of course.

And also, it’s like if you’re a liar, you generally lie a lot.

Like liar liars don’t just lie one time in their life and then you catch them.

They’re inconsistent.

Like he was lying long before there was an internet.

I mean, excuse me, he was telling the story long before the there was an internet.

So if he was lying like in the late8s >> like there would be inconsistencies in his story like he would forget how he said it.

He would [ __ ] something up or >> dude the research I did for this for the documentary like I I told him you got to give me full access to your life dude like boxes whatever.

Don’t open them.

Let me get all your tapes everything.

I was so shocked like people if they’re trying to hide something they’re real careful around you you know just that’s never that was not my experience.

Here’s my other thing is like do we have to believe any one single person to understand that this is >> No.

>> Yeah.

This is a real phenomen.

Well, but he’s one of the more interesting cases >> because if he’s telling the truth, that means that the government has been working on these things for decades and decades >> and that they have gotten this they’ve gotten themselves in this pickle where they can’t publicly disclose what they know and what they have access to because they’ve had all these people work on these things secretly and they sort of have uh a long history of hiding information, right? >> You were talking about John Lear and John Lear’s connection to Bob Lazar and the possibility that Lear was spreading disinformation.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like Le Yeah.

That’s a I’ve, By the way, since making that video, I’ve become more positive on Lazar just in so far as I think he was at S4 Area 51.

And there’s going to be a great documentary coming out by my buddy Luigi on this called Project Gravitar.

And I think there’s going to be a lot of corroborating evidence that he was at least there and a lot in his story checks.

But I think you have to view and I even say that in this video that I think a lot of the story could be true.

>> You can’t I think view the Bob Lazar story.

You can’t just take it at face value >> because John Leer and he were friends.

John Leer is this babbling UFO nut.

He’s obsessed with UFOs.

He’s writing weird like disinfoy style stuff with Bill Cooper.

Behold the Pale Horse Guy, >> which is a wild book.

>> Which is a wild book.

Wild.

Yeah.

[laughter] And so he’s crazy.

>> He talks about, doesn’t he talk about bases on the moon? >> Talks about bases on the moon.

Lear also talked about a soul catcher that like controlled our souls on the moon.

Oh boy.

>> And so Lear was like flooding the zone with all sorts of weird [ __ ] Lear comes from an interesting family.

His father is Bill Leer, who’s the autopilot wizard.

He created the first business, you know, basically the first private jet, the Lear Jet, uh, in the 50s and 60s.

and was an associate of a guy I hope we talk about named Thomas Towns and Brown.

Yeah.

>> And um and so I think you know Lear was engaging in all sorts of [ __ ] Was he a useful idiot or was he a sophisticated agent provocator? I’m totally open to him having been a useful idiot.

In fact, there is a video of him saying I was told uh I was given all the Bob Lazar files or whatever and I was I was told about you know um uh uh uh to to actually like he said a guy named Admiral Mlelen knew that I ran my mouth.

I I even have this video actually on the dock that I sent you Jamie.

He says knew that I ran my mouth.

Uh so that’s why we we basically we got Bob a job or whatever.

He knew that part of this stuff would leak and it was like this limited hangout strategy on behalf of this guy named Admiral Mlen or whatever and he was this useful idiot to sort of get get it out and I think there >> to what for what purpose? recruiting you give people high level.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

>> And the MJ personnel, the original 12 uh have all passed away.

So they put they get different people uh into uh these positions of MJ 2, 3, four, five, six, uh and taken over.

It’s degraded.

So it’s almost political now instead of like it was when Truman originally formed the MJ12.

It turns out that MJ1, the head of MJ12, is a guy named Admiral Mike Mlullen.

He wanted to get some of the information out because he he didn’t re he didn’t want to uh he thought that some of this information should be out in the public.

We don’t need to keep all this secrecy.

So, he decided trying to figure out a way to get it to the public.

So, he knew that [clears throat] uh I was a blabbermouth and I would tell anything I knew.

uh they investigated Bob Lazar and they knew that he was a genius uh but that he had a background such uh that they could instantly discredit him.

They removed all his records from MIT from Caltech.

So he couldn’t prove anything.

He’d go back to G.

No, I don’t see any records here.

Well, I was here.

No, you weren’t.

And uh he also uh [clears throat] up in Reno at one time he he ran a cat house there.

um I forget what the name of the honeysuckle ranch iter was.

So they chose him because not only could he probably help them because he was so smart and his mur he’s [clears throat] the one that named uh an unpenium 115 he’s the one that told them what that was and they didn’t know uh when when he went there they didn’t know what it was he was the one that told them that’s element 115 and then told them why and how he’d figured it out but [clears throat] they decided to pick on Bob uh to get go up there to work at ES4 because he they knew that Bob would tell me instantly and then I would blab the whole thing and that was their motive apparendi was to get the information out and gauge what it did to the public, how they accepted it and then pull back and say, “Oh, no, it was all a mistake.

Bob Lazar is a uh a fraud.

He never worked here.

He doesn’t have any credentials like that.

” And they could back away and get out of it.

So that was what Mike McClone came up with.

>> Isn’t that crazy? >> Weird.

>> Weird.

And to me, >> kind of makes sense a little bit though.

>> It does.

And that doesn’t make Bob Lazar still not the most interesting story in the world.

Like he’s saying he’s not saying it didn’t happen, right? He’s just saying that this happened as part of this limited hangout strategy where they knew that they could delete the records at MIT.

They knew that they could stigmatize him because of the brothel.

They knew that there, you know, he was this not traditionally trained engineer who just happened to strap a ramjet on the back of a Honda or whatever and meet Edward Teller serendipitously.

They knew that they could, they had plausible deniability on all that stuff.

There’s a great line in the Oenheimer movie where Leslie Groves, played by Matt Damon, says, “I didn’t hire Oppenheimer uh uh in spite of his communist sympathies.

I hired him because of them.

” So, you have a top secret program.

You want compromise on people.

You want to be able to blackmail them.

M >> and so I think you know that should be taken at face value in my opinion and the reason that the story itself can’t be taken at face value and needs to be seen through that lens is Lear and and Bazar were friends before Bazar got a job at Area at Area 51 S4.

And so if you have a top secret program you’re going to do a basic background check and and and Lear is going to come up as a guy with a UFO blog, right? And then the CIA is all over the UFO program, right? And he was flying CIA cargo jets and and he says that he disaffiliated in ‘ 83.

That’s [ __ ] George Knapp and and Jeremy Corbel have talked about how that’s how that’s BS and actually disaffiliated much later into the mid 80s or whatever.

Why would you continue to pay a guy who is leaking your crown jewel