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It is now day 29 in the search for Nancy Guthrie.

Uh, it is Sunday.

I’m in Tucson.

I’m in a different spot.

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This is actually uh KVOA behind me television.

Sorry, this sun is kind of bright, but I’ll try to get in the shade to show you guys.

This is the um the banner out front of KVOA that says uh bring her home.

Obviously referring to Nancy Guthrie.

And at the end of this episode, I’ll show you guys all the signatures on the on the banner.

There’s so many.

This is actually my first time out here.

I haven’t been out here to to KVOA, but this is where Savannah Guthrie worked.

I think it was her second local TV job.

Um, and uh, it’s just you read all the messages from people in the community, and it it’s just so heartbreaking.

I can’t believe it’s now day 29.

Uh, in this episode, I really want to dive into the possibility of an accomplice or a getaway driver, which I’ve talked about before, but what could actually cause that person to come forward um and essentially rat the other person out.

Um, you know, there’s a million dollar uh reward now.

Um, it seems like that could be one of the ways this could be solved.

And so many of the retired FBI agents who I’ve talked to say that they think that is what is going to happen here eventually.

Why it hasn’t happened yet, when will it happen, could there be some kind of arrangement made so the person could get the reward and avoid jail time.

Uh that’s what I’m going to get into in this episode of Brian Investigates.

I’m joined now by Moren O’ Connell, retired FBI special agent.

Uh Moren, it’s nice to see you.

I always get sad when I don’t see you very much, but you know, I think it’s I probably haven’t talked to you on here in like a week or so.

Um, but I know it seems like forever.

It does.

I know you’ve been on a lot of show, so I still see you.

I still see you.

I just haven’t talked to you.

Um, but I wanted to ask you, it’s day 20 28 when we’re recording this.

Um, you know, a lot of people are wondering if this is going to become a cold case.

Nancy Guthrie, I was just out at the house.

It’s just quiet.

you know, a lot of the media, everything obviously going on in the Middle East, but a lot of the media has has left.

Um, what what I mean, what do you what happens now? Where where do you think things go from here? I don’t think it’s going to be a cold case.

There’s a million dollars on the table for someone.

If you’re, you know, and and it’s part of the human condition for all of us to be greedy.

A million dollars is a lot of money that’s going to change someone’s world.

If there’s more than one person involved in this, which I believe there is, they’re now they’re now in an air fryer and it’s just who’s going to jump out first because you you if if we put ourselves in the in the minds of the perpetrators here, Brian, you know, you’re like, “Oh, we can’t say anything.

We’re going to go to prison.

” Yeah, one person’s going to go to prison, but we all know if the accomplice comes forward and gives up the guy, there’s a really good chance he can get off and get a million dollars.

He wasn’t going to get a million dollars um from the uh architect of this whole operation initially, was he? No.

He was probably going to get who knows.

I mean, people do this stuff for as little as $2,500.

So, whatever the amount is.

And then when the when when when the amount went up to a million dollars, the heat went up a million degrees.

I mean, they’re this person is thinking about it and the other person involved knows they’re thinking about it.

So, the other side of that coin is there’s a million dollars on the table.

They can get it.

Apparently, they can do it without uh being traced.

They can they can pick it up in cash at a post office.

Okay.

I’m not sure how that would work, but might be able to.

I mean, I guess if he walked in dressed like the p the porch pirate, he showed up on NY’s porch, maybe.

But, um, if that’s the case, why isn’t someone coming forward? I mean, when you look at the other side of that coin, there’s only one reason they can’t, and it’s because they’re the only one, and they’re the only one responsible, or, you know, I can’t come forward because I kidnapped her and now she’s gone.

It’s But to your first question about this being a cold case, I don’t think it’s cold at all.

There’s so much followup on any investigation, but one of this size and this importance.

There’s a ton of followup.

Everything from subpoenas to bank records to phone records to all the followup on all the footage that they’ve collected.

And how much footage do you think they’ve collected? Is there any? It’s thousands of hours is what I heard.

Yeah.

FBI is going through and I like I I told you earlier, I think it’s probably traffic cameras cuz I mean just knowing the neighborhood, there’s not that much Ring camera.

I don’t think that I mean I guess there could be if someone gave up their whole month of video or something but yeah so there’s not only going over the video which is which is which is challenging as I think you guys all got a little taste of when we saw the video from uh Camino Royale the other day.

It’s very challenging.

It’s we’re talking enhancements too.

You have to slow all this footage down.

You have to enhance it in different ways.

You have to try to figure out what type of vehicle it is.

From there, you do what we call chase the vehicle.

So, you’re chasing the vehicle around the neighborhood.

Let’s say we find out it is a white Kia soul that people are looking for, even though I know that’s been discounted.

Now, we’re going to start looking for white Kia souls in other parts of the in other parts of the neighborhood on other days, at other times.

Back on January 11th, th those days are important for a reason.

Someone saw something and and it’s it’s, you know, they’re they’re they’re looking at that.

So when you have all this footage and then you’re also thinking of January 11th and then you’re also trying to identify vehicles and enhance things and compare and contrast that with any of the geo fences that are up and the phone numbers in those areas.

And the other thing to look at is all the cars that have no um active connection in their car.

So, they don’t have a car that connects to the um that that emits or is able to get picked up in a geoence and they don’t have a phone in the car.

I mean, those people would be to the would go to the top of my list.

Who drives around without their phone off or without a phone? Right.

It was like Brian Coberger turned his phone off.

Exactly.

And that was one of the big things that you know was bad for his defense because that was the absence of normaly.

Right.

Right.

when you said that, you know, someone could come forward, it’s a million dollars now.

Someone who’s, you know, an accomplice, like a like a let’s say like a getaway driver, you know, like you’re not the actual one who went in and and you know, if Nancy was killed or died, could would the FBI do they ever work deals with someone like a getaway driver? Like if the person got a lawyer and came forward and said, “I’ll give you the info.

I want the million dollars, but I don’t want to go.

” Absolutely.

How does that work? But yeah, it’s not the Well, it’s not the law enforcement officers that can make that deal.

That’s the prosecutor.

So, if it’s a um the A USA or the DA, whoever has the case, who who’s and and you could carve that portion of the case off to let’s say the DA could carve that off to the A USA if that works better for them.

And some things a lot of people don’t realize is when you’re in a task force environment like this, we do carve things up.

and we carve it up nicely.

For example, you’ve seen how the FBI is handling the ransom notes.

They’re handling all the the technical data and the um sheriff is handling the DNA and whatever else.

Now, when it comes to prosecution, we can carve that up, too, to say if who who can who can hit this perpetrator the hardest, who can give them the most jail time, who can are the state charges tougher than the fed charges or vice versa, and and you just have these discussions, you have these meetings, and you figure these things out.

The same will hold true when you’re trying to make a deal.

Um, you know, hey, the federal the feds, can you guys give this guy a great deal if he comes forward? it’s going to be his lawyer that’s going to reach out to the DA andor the AUSA to try to start a conversation.

And um you know that’s what we’re hoping right now.

But there’s no way this way this case is cold because way too many people are are just too tied into it.

Every single solitary cop on that sheriff’s department, every FBI agent that’s touched this thing, they want this perpetrator brought to justice.

and they’ll never forget.

I mean, if you look at going all the way back to Whitey Bulier, he was on the Lamb for 16 years.

We were always looking for him.

We never stopped and then we finally got him.

What do you think the pressure is like for the agents? I mean, knowing that, you know, President Trump has brought up the the case.

Obviously, Cash Cash Patel talks about it.

Like, does that impact the agents working it? Is there a heightened sort of like we got to we got to solve this? No, but it will it will let them know that if we need more resources and and we feel it’s necessary and we can write it up, we’ll get them.

So, in that regard, it’s good.

But we always try to just block that out as noise.

we’re just going to do our work and, you know, keep keep everything else out of it cuz cuz we’re always thinking about um doing what’s right for the victim.

And when that’s your goal and no matter who the victim is, I mean, even if the victim is a criminal, we have to do whatever we can and do what’s right to help them.

But in a situation or a case where the victim is the most vulnerable in our community, like a baby, a small child, an old person, then you know, you really tend to put a little more heart in it.

It’s like it’s like team sports.

When you’re on the team, do you always play hard? Yeah, you always play hard, but sometimes you play a little harder and and you can’t help it.

That’s just, you know, that’s just human nature.

What about the FBI sending, you know, agents back to to Phoenix, which is like two hours away? Um, is that a bad sign? Not to me, because I’d rather be working from my office because the FBI has a bunch of closed systems, so we can’t just jump on the internet and do all this stuff.

I mean, you can for certain things, but a lot of our stuff is um is is very sensitive.

So, we like to use the FBI systems that are closed to all outside um sources.

And so, it’s much easier to work out of a big division or a big office and have everything that you need.

You’ve got the evidence room.

You’ve got um access to um the cast team.

You’ve got access access to everything that we you normally would have when you’re working an investigation instead of doing it a little bit on the fly with a laptop and meetings and zooming in and you know you can’t do a lot of things on Zoom.

And so I I think it’s actually good.

It’ll give them a chance to because there’s a lot of this work is just elbow elbow grease.

It’s just hard work.

you got just got to, you know, get down to the work.

It’s like doing your taxes.

You just got to do it.

You got to go through it.

You got to push.

Do they ever bring in a whole new set of I mean, like if you’re an agent working a case and it goes unsolved for a while, will they ever cycle out with a new team to come in kind of like just for a fresh set of eyes? Probably not a team, but the the case agent is the person that has the ticket or has that case or a squad.

um you know, there’s always going to be new people coming to the squad and some people transferring off the squad, whether they’re going to another division, going overseas, going to whatever.

So, there’s there’s there’s new blood in there and sometimes they’ll they’ll just have the new person, hey, I want you to take a look at this section and tell me what you’re thinking or, you know, you have a squad meeting about the case and you talk about everything and and you you redirect, you pivot, you try something new.

You’re you’re always thinking about new things.

Then you set up a meeting with the Pima County Sheriff’s.

Hey, we’ve got this.

Do you have anything that dubtales to this? What can we do together? Is there anything we can do to augment what you’re doing? Is there anything you can do to augment what we’re doing? Is it good in some ways if the public moves on? Like, you know, because, you know, with with so much attention on it, every little thing they were doing, you know, the media is picking up on.

Is in some ways, is it good if there is not that much attention for a while? No.

Well, um I think it would have been good if there were le if there was less press in front of the house when they were trying to do all their investigative stuff.

I was never comfortable with that because you can’t even really talk, you know, and if you’re with someone you’re mentoring or you’re with someone who’s your mentor, you don’t even feel comfortable asking a question because you think everyone’s listening or whatever or watching.

And so I I like to have a little more autonomy or a little more freedom when we’re actually working a case because it’s such a great place to learn.

And um I mean even though people there are all highly highly trained, it’s still a great place to learn.

And sometimes um I I don’t know.

I was just never really comfortable with people breathing down my neck, so to speak.

And you’re the one breathing down people’s necks, Brian.

I know.

I know.

I feel bad.

It’s just my job, though, you know.

But even with the drones now, it is like we can see everything.

I mean, you know, back in the day before drones, I remember you’d have to have the chopper up and that was only up for a little while.

Now you can keep the drone up and we can keep an eye on pretty much everything they’re doing.

Crazy.

It’s so much worse now than it was.

Do you think so? That’s that’s difficult.

Yeah, I thought about that cuz when we follow them around the backside, I’m like, they’ve got to hear the drone and just be like, oh my god.

like, you know, I mean, granted, we are not listening to what they’re saying, obviously, right? Um, do you think they did enough at the at the scene? I mean, it’s it last night I noticed late last night the the deputy finally left.

So, there’s no there’s no longer a deputy guarding the house anymore.

It’s just Well, I want to talk about that for a second, Brian, because no one even knew that that guy was there.

No one even knew they were guarding that um until you mentioned it the other day.

I I I was shocked.

Everyone, they just they just release the scene and it’s a free-for-all.

And well, there was it was a free-for-all initially, like when we got the video of the blood on the front steps, they released the scene.

Like then they left.

There was no one there for those first couple of days.

It was just like a normal house, you know, back again.

But then when everything started to come out and the FBI got involved like day three or four, then they came back after we got that video and everything.

and there’s been a deputy there around the clock since then up until yesterday when they officially said, “Okay, it’s now back in the family’s control.

” So, I don’t know what they did um on their search of that house.

They could have done an outstanding job.

I don’t know.

One would think that they would have more DNA if someone spent 41 minutes in there um than, you know, just corrupted DNA or whatever or um like a mixture.

But um I don’t I’m hoping that they did a really outstanding job.

And you know, go back to Coberger and go back to all these other cases.

They always had way more than they let us believe they had.

Yeah.

And I’ve never worked a case where the press got it right.

We always had way more than anyone knew.

And you’re proud about that.

You’re proud that you’ve been able to, you know, tamp that down and and and keep it under wraps because it’s important for the preservation of the investigation.

The person you have to think about every day is Nancy.

Every day you think about Nancy.

What would what would be the best thing we could do for Nancy? Just keep your mouth shut, work the case, bring it to a logical conclusion, and find out who did this.

Yeah.

And I’ve wondered some of the stuff that even the FBI has released.

Um like, you know, it was federal sources who said that that one photo came from earlier and it wasn’t from the same day.

remember the two photos from the front.

Um, and then which kind of surprised me.

I actually thought that that photo, if you were to if you if you and I were to put money on it when we first saw it, I would have said that that photo was from after Nancy was put in the vehicle, he came back without his backpack on and he was checking to make sure he didn’t drop anything.

But see, I was wrong.

Well, yeah.

I mean, the sheriff is insisting that they don’t know still that it could be from the same day, but I actually have one of the federal sources, and I I believe that it is going to be from a previous day.

I I don’t know this part, but I think it’s going to end up being the January 11th day.

Uh because they were asking all it just makes sense.

They were asking all for video from that day, so they must have known that he was there that day, you know? Right.

Which is is weeks earlier, which it’s interesting with the neighbors.

They were really creeped out by that.

Like just like knowing that this guy was casing the house possibly for super creepy.

Yeah.

Especially if you consider what if he was what if he was casing four or five of those houses.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

I would have my house locked down with cameras right now and the street.

If I lived on that block, I’d be getting cameras on the street to see who’s driving down my block.

And and another thing that people do with cameras because my company does um c security threat assessments and cameras and stuff like that, everybody always puts a camera from like up here.

You have to put one up here and then one like down here because when a bad guy sees a camera, they always turn down to the other side and that’s where we always hide a camera.

So when they turn away, we get a a much better Good idea.

Yeah, I never thought of that.

Mhm.

And always get But the same holds true for the cameras on the street.

You want to you want to get it where you can see the vehicle and see what kind of vehicle it is, but you also want one that sees the tag.

And you you’re going to want to see one that’s going to see the tag from behind because not everyone has tags on the front of their cars.

Is is is Arizona state where they don’t have to have a tag on the front? Is that correct? I’m in a parking lot right now.

I don’t No, they don’t.

At least the ones I’m looking at out here, they don’t have to.

Do you have to in California? Yes.

Yeah.

In Florida, where I’m from, you don’t either.

Yeah.

So, then you have to um position your cameras in such a way that they’ll capture a tag from the rear of the vehicle.

So, do you have I mean, you’ve you know, you’ve been working on not on the inside working on it, but you we’ve been talking about this case for a long time now.

It’s been almost a month.

Do you have one theory that you’re holding on to? I mean, is there something in your gut after all you’ve learned? Yes.

Are you allowed? I’m not going to talk about it.

No.

Okay.

It’s still the same thing you don’t want to talk about.

Yeah.

Okay.

Interesting.

Um, yeah.

I think a lot of people I still don’t know what to think.

I really don’t.

Someone asked me outside the house just now like, “So, what do you really think?” It’s just I don’t know.

It’s so myster I I sit outside the house and I look at the door and I just think about like what what happened here early on February, you know, that I still don’t know what to think.

There have been a couple of days where I’d wake up in the morning and wonder what in the hell happened because there are just too many competing um portions of this case sort of colliding it seems like and it’s it’s you know like in the in the even in the um Coberger case or the Idaho case I should call it because I don’t want any credit.

Um, even in that case, um, it was pretty clear to me from walking around that back of that, um, uh, that house where it happened that someone was stalking one of the girls and went in there to do what he did to them and then it turned into a fight.

Often times it ends up being a lot more physical than you imagine.

And so it turns into a fight and then he wakes up the other people and now he’s in a fight at the next landing lower and then you know he was exhausted.

The reason he probably didn’t notice that um roommate downstairs was because when you’re in a situation like that your eard drums are pounding like you have you ever been in a situation where all you can hear is boom boom boom boom boom boom.

I don’t think I have.

You wouldn’t even You haven’t.

What do you mean? We’re going to have to We’re going to have to you when you’re in a really when you’re really scar like scared or you’re in a a fight or your heart is pounding your Yeah.

Yeah.

I’ve had that when it’s and you can just feel it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can feel it in your eardrums just pounding and so we all haven’t agents.

Moren, we we all haven’t been in heart stopping situations like you.

So, yeah.

We may have to test test your metal a little bit here, Brian.

maybe get you out on the range and we can charge all the all the uh all your viewers that love you so much, all those kind women, come out and see Bri Moren scare Brian really badly and you guys can all comfort him when it’s over.

That would be too embarrassing.

That would be funny.

Um but anyhow, what are you getting at though with the pounding? What do you mean? I don’t think I don’t think um the offender in the in the Idaho killing case could hear her door squeak open or open or was just you just get tunnel vision a little bit when you’ve been involved in a fight and and then another fight and then another fight.

You know, he had he was just trying to get out of there and and he was probably breathing very heavy and his ears were pounding and um hyper you become hyperfocused.

So that’s what I that’s what I think happened there.

How does that connect back to Nancy though? Do you think that the person may have been in the same state? Well, no.

What I’m saying is with with that situation, everyone was saying, “Well, how could it be with four people? There had to be three people in there all at once.

” No, it that that didn’t make sense to me.

You always go to this start with the simpler version.

You know, what could have happened? Why did it happen? First of all, if you start asking why, why would this happen? Why would this be of value to anyone? Who would gain something from this? and what would it be that they would gain? So when you start from that type of mindset, you can often times find an easier path of what happened or what you think happened or what your theory is or a working theory or starting theory or whatever, but there were just too many strange things going on.

And now that the um the um ransom notes have been debunked, it sort of clears the path a little bit.

the fact that no one’s coming forward for this million bucks when they can get it.

It’s and it’s, you know, if you can get it in cash, it’s taxfree because there’s how they got to find out who you are, right? Um, you know, that tells me it wasn’t a kidnapping, that it was a murder.

Well, because they we would they would have proof of life and they would be trying to get something, right? Absolutely.

I mean, that’s the whole point.

the whole point.

It’s like opening a It’s opening a restaurant and never serving food.

No one’s going to do that.

It doesn’t make sense.

Yeah.

So, it’s more of either a murder or like an abduction or a murder where somehow the offender’s DNA got someplace on her or on her or something like that or, you know, I I’m I’m still operating under the assumption that he had a tarp with him to maybe to roll her up and carry her out.

I don’t know.

But time will tell and um I’m still praying that that she’s being cared for for someone.

But those are those those hopeful thoughts are diminishing with no one coming forward for the million dollars.

Right.

I interviewed this local detective who was in that he he’s retired now, but he was in that area for a long time working that area and he worked burglaries in that area.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was like Yeah, he he was great.

And he uh he really thinks that it was a burglary gone wrong.

Um bec and he he was explaining to me that with these burglars in that area when he used to investigate them, they all have criminal histories so that they’ll do anything not to get caught.

He was saying they’d run barefoot through the cactuses to just because they know that they’re screwed because they’ve already got these histories and they’re going to end up in in in jail for a long time.

So, he thinks that his theory was something went wrong where Nancy died and they’ll do whatever it takes to get to cover that up because, you know, they don’t want to they don’t want to take the blame for that since they’ve already got these a criminal history.

Okay.

I mean, his theory is as good as anyone’s, I guess.

I mean, he worked that area and and and he sounded very squared away and um you know, it was sad to hear in his voice um the the hardship that the department is going through and the offic or the detectives and deputies are going through because of all all this nonsense that has happened.

You know, I just I just hope that the um um the sheriff turns out to be some sort of um genius that outsmarted all of us.

I really hope I really hope that’s the case.

Well, he apologized, but also, you know, he was maybe they told he hasn’t been doing the interviews and stuff like he was.

It’s, you know, he he’s kind of gone into hiding.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

Well, we’ll see.

Moren, it’s always good to talk with you.

You, too, Brian.

I appreciate you.

Yep.

I appreciate you, too, buddy.

Bye.

As always, I really appreciate Moren for for talking with me.

Uh, and you guys for uh for checking out my show and subscribing.

Um, everybody subscribing.

It’s It’s awesome.

I really really appreciate it.

I want to read you guys some of the messages on the um bring her home banner.

There’s a a really nice picture of Nancy.

Um you can see holding you in our hearts.

God bless you and your family.

We all have had a mother.

Bring closure to this family.

Bring Nancy home safe.

We are praying for all the family.

Um praying for you every night you come home.

Never stop praying till you’re home free.

Have faith and hope.

Prayers for the Guthrie family.

Prayers for the Guthrie family.

And many prayers for Mama Nancy.

Tucson Appliance is here for you guys.

God is with you wherever you are.

Minnesota is praying for you.

So, someone from Minnesota came out here.

Uh, prayers and positive thoughts bring her home.

So many messages.

Praying for Nancy and family.

God bless you.

Nancy, the Lord will bring you home to your family no matter what.

Um, Annie Cameron Savannah Tucson is with you.

Mostly what God does is love you.

Praying for your safe return.

So many nice messages.

Thinking of you.

Bring home Nancy.

Guthrie family.

Our community is praying for all of you.

We stand by you.

Prayers.

You can just see how big the banner is out here.

So, do you mind if I talk to you? No.

You don’t want to? Okay.

No problem.

It’s a nice lady I met.

You’re from Miami, though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She’s more I understand.

So, anyway, that’s the latest from Tucson.

Uh, and uh, I’ll talk to you guys later.