I’ve been all weekend I’ve been wanting to ask you guys about this because I really thought we made some progress on Friday when we really were analyzing the timeline that had been given the day before came up with it was a 40 minute 41 minute time stint that we think the perpetrator was in the house.

If you go from 1:47 when they disconnected the Nest cameras to 228 when her pacemaker stopped communicating with the iPhone that was in her house.

41 minutes.

And we spent a lot of time on how why does it take 41 minutes to c to kidnap an 84y old woman and is it possible that they that they killed her that that that that’s what happened in that 41 minute stint.

But then we got to the point where we just did not think that could be the case because the pacemaker the pacemaker would have shown the cardiac event ending her life if it happened prior to 2:28 am So that pacemaker is really everything.

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But then over the weekend, I got to thinking, how much do we really know about the pacemaker? Like, is it possible, guys, that because like all we know is that she got far enough away from the iPhone that it stopped recording events, but like is it possible the police know there there was something catastrophic that happened on that pacemaker prior to 228? They haven’t told us anything about her heart or anything about the pacemaker except that it disconnected from the iPhone at 2:28 am Now, they they then launched this big thing where they said, “We think she’s still alive.

” And so they they could be lying to us.

But is it because what my takeaway watching all these searches was they think she might have been killed at Annie’s house.

That that’s one of the possibilities.

Why are they going over there for three hours taking pictures in the night lighting it up with something? I don’t know.

What? Again, this is second time back there when we have been told the crime scene is at is at NY’s house.

So, they keep going back to Annie’s house where she had dinner that night.

And so, what is the actual proof that the mother was delivered back to her home at 9:47 with the garage door closing two minutes later that night? Like what is the proof that that actually was Nancy Guthrie getting delivered back into her garage? And what is the proof that there was nothing on the pacemaker, you know, from any point in the evening up to 2:28 am ? Yeah, proving the negative is always a tough task for uh in any uh situation, much less criminal investigation.

And and I guess you’re right.

I mean, especially with the way the sheriff changed his uh his his explanation of we know she was dropped off at whatever it was 9:47 and then we know oh the family said they dropped her off at this time.

We’re only going on that eyewitness account from the family members one or more.

Again, it’s not clear purposely probably so, but uh maybe on the part of of even the family without speculating there, but there’s a lot of questions the pacemaker part uh and and the um the irregular activity that would show it.

I I mean they do show and I’ve worked cases in in recent past more as a consultant than in the FBI, especially people with these uh these uh Apple watches that are hooked up to it.

uh you know same principle you can actually see when a person dies and it makes a medical examiner’s job much easier than just looking at undigested food and issues like that uh and it certainly can add to it.

So why though would the f if they think she died at one house or the other Megan and then and the family is making these pleas.

just it’s just it’s just so confusing on my part in that regard and how that work.

So this is well this is where I went.

If you if you trust in the pacemaker and you trust in the fact that the police aren’t going to be doing this wild goose chase knowing that the pacemaker showed she died you know earlier in the evening if they think she died you know at 8:30 or or 9:00 then that would explain the search at Annie’s house perfectly right because she was at Annie’s house at that time.

But that’s not what they’re saying.

They’re saying she went back home.

They’re they are engaging in the goose chase.

So presumably it’s not wild.

And they do believe she was alive when she left the house at 2:28 am So what are they doing at Annie’s house? Why are they back at Annie’s and Tomas’s for 3 hours taking pictures, Chad? Is it Well, think about this.

Hold on, Megan.

Think about this.

Their shoes, their boots.

Why is it Why is it that Nancy Ubered to the house for dinner but didn’t Uber back? They’re saying they drove her back because if she Ubered back, we would have a definite interview from who whatever that Uber driver was and saying, “No, I dropped her off.

” Like you said, we’re we’re solely going off of the family saying we drove her back and we dropped her off because we had the doorbell or the you know, let’s be honest, nobody’s going to remember the exact time.

They’re basing it off this, you know, the um garage door activation.

Garage door.

So, is it not odd if mom Ubered over for dinner, but we drove her back? So, and then they mentioned that they were there playing games as a family.

That tells me that and they said with the grandkids, so we know there’s multi.

Hey, I would find it very hard that you would commit a homicide in front of your own children of their grandmother if they in fact were there.

And and again, the pacemaker would presumably show that that her life ended.

well prior to 2:30 or 2:28 in the morning.

But that suggests to me that that then it was things inside the house that may be evidentiary.

So what are they? I mean, are they looking for clothing that maybe reflects mud or time in a water tank? Are they looking for boots and whatever mud may may be on like what would they be photographing? And they did they did remove some evidence.

They came out with bags.

So, and by the way, they came out wearing blue gloves.

Does that tell you anything? I don’t know if like the standard FBI is like a a clear glove and the FB and the blue glove is something to deal with chemicals.

I have no idea.

But they were wearing gloves.

So, obviously, they were trying to protect at least against their fingerprints getting all over this place.

And to me, it seems, Jim, that they were treating it as a potential crime scene.

Everything and every place associated with Nancy Guthrie right now uh has to be considered a potential crime scene.

There are multiple crimes whenever this thing is resolved.

We hope it is.

Obviously inside the house by the front door is a crime scene of Mrs.

Guthrie.

And then the vehicle that was used to transport her.

We’re thinking it was a vehicle of so uh of some sort.

And then if she was being held somewhere or put into a place in the ground or under undercover, that’s yet a third crime scene.

Sometimes people go out and move remains.

That could be then a fourth crime scene.

So they’re going to look at So now we’re not looking outside at this point.

Now we’re back at Annie’s house uh and her husband’s house.

They feel they have some basic information that they just want to tie some loose ends and they are doing it.

And Megan, you brought up on Friday or so when I said they really need to get into some more intense interviews, perhaps polygraphs.

Well, they don’t want to lawyer up.

So, that would explain why.

And I get that part of you always have to walk that thin line.

You don’t want to press it too hard.

So, they don’t lawyer up.

It has to be custodial interview within their house.

Of course, Miranda doesn’t apply there.

They’re not in custody.

So, uh they can do it a lot lower key.

Some friendly type people.

Hey, just a few more questions.

You We all remember the famous uh um Columbbo show.

One more question as he’s walking out the door.

But they would do this.

That was the one that would get you.

That’s right.

But they would do this not so much walking out the door, but coming in the second time.

It would be interesting to know whether they’re announced uh visits or they’re set up in advance there.

Um Megan, either we’re told they’re consensual.

That’s all we know.

Yeah.

The Saturday.

Yeah.

But whether they whether they the knock on the door was agreed to in the past in, you know, an hour or two before or something else.

Megan, I like Well, I don’t think they were there.

I think I think they’ve moved to a hotel.

Keep going.

um whether we do it right now or another segment.

Um I I talked to one of the last kid kidnappings ever that occurred in the US.

One of the last was that Sydney Riso kidnapping uh back in ’92.

And uh one of the agents now long retired, but he walked me through some of the things about that case.

And I think from context perspective, it’s very important to look at that case and others and how that in how that played out.

And because on the fourth day, it turns out that Mr.

Russo died.

And yet the husband and wife couple, so happens a husband and wife.

He was former law enforcement.

Um they kept up the uh the facade for like 54 days or so that they were live trying to get the money.

And the amount they wanted, by the way, $6 million today, and where NBC may put some of it up, even not just Savannah, uh they wanted uh those kidnappers wanted and Exxon was willing to pay $18.

5 million back in 1992 for the kidnapping, legitimate kidnapping of their executive in which on the first day a letter came in the mail to I think the local police with the Exxon credit card of Mr.

Riso in there.

So, uh, those kidnappers really play to that.

Well, his newspaper was delivered every day when people used to get newspapers, but the kidnappers went out that morning and pulled the newspaper down to the bottom of the driveway.

Pretty big house, maybe something like where Mrs.

Guthrie lived.

So, he had to walk farther down the driveway to get the newspaper.

And that way, they could jump out, the husband and wife, and grab him, throw him in the back of Ben.

They had to shoot him in the arm to get him to uh under control there.

Then he goes and dies four days later because he had a bad heart.

But they kept that hidden.

He wound up his body found in the Vine Barons of New Jersey 54 days later because a bunch of calls came in.

But they were communicating the whole time.

And the point is it’s a it’s a very bad situation with uh that kidnapping.

And I hate to use the word legitimate, but it was an actual slashlegitimate real forprofit stranger kidnapping.

All those qualifiers we have to put in there back in 92.

And and that’s how these these guys worked it.

a lot of miscommunications between the kidnappers and Exxon and uh and you know so who knows what’s been missing in this particular case in terms of communications technology is a little better now but that was just one bizarre case Jim we were talking about in the first hour where you know where is the obvious communication about facts only Nancy would know they they they haven’t done it and they haven’t done it for a reason and Now, the second demand doesn’t seem to renew the money demand.

That was only in the first demand, but the Bitcoin address stands.

They haven’t changed that.

There’s been no deposit in it.

And Jim, you’re the linguist.

Listen to the the Savannah video with the siblings.

It’s a it’s a shift.

I mean, they sounded very grim in their first two videos, don’t get me wrong, but there’s definitely a shift tonally.

The first one was like, she’s got grandchildren.

They cover her in kisses.

She’s spunky.

She’s fun.

You know, mama, we’re looking for you.

The whole world is looking for you, mommy.

And then this.

Here it is again.

We received your message and we understand.

We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

This is the only way we will have peace.

This is very valuable to us and we will pay a lot in there.

Jim, you’ve got so that we can celebrate with her also.

Now they’re begging.

We beg you to return our mother.

And then the this is the only way we will have peace.

This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

the peace is very valuable to us and we will pay return her so that we can celebrate with her.

What does that mean to you? Yeah, there’s a lot in there.

I much prefer to be analyzing the uh communications from the alleged kidnappers, but but but we’ll stick with this for now because we don’t have any access to that.

Yeah, it almost sounds like and and and Chad knows this very well.

We we’ve both been there.

When your investigation of some sort of a missing person, it could even be a boat accident or something.

It goes from rescue to recovery.

And it almost sounds like the family members have morphed into that category.

Uh why they felt they wanted to put a message out because they want to celebrate that and not in the way we look at celebration with a birthday party or surprise party.

saying goodbye.

Perhaps a a a celebration of life is a very common term nowadays.

And perhaps that’s what they’re seeing.

Just tell us where she is.

We’ll pay you this sum whatever if it’s 6 million as we’re hearing USD, which again makes it even more interesting as you pointed out earlier.

Uh they’re they’re willing to do that, but there is a somberness about them.

There is like they know something.

perhaps what President Trump was referencing on Friday.

Somehow that information came to fruition and it was passed to the family.

Uh because all he uses the term was solution.

And of course I picked up on when President Trump said it was reasonably soon.

What does that mean? Hours, days, weeks.

That can be you know clarified in many different ways.

So uh it does seem to have a different um there does seem to be a different persona, collective persona reflected in that last message.

And uh I I I just hope they’re wrong about it.

I still want to think she’s alive.

I still want to think the investigators are looking to rescue her or at least have her released.

And I’m assuming the task force is bifurcated those looking at everyone around Mrs.

Guthrie, you know, housekeepers, all the people we talked about before.

Then the other side of the of the team looking at uh a possible kidnapping.

I’m hoping they’re bringing the CIA in uh and NSA in terms of you can put anonymizers on your computers.

are pretty good for local law enforcement, even federal.

But I’d like to think that our system, our federal government, you know, the spooks out there, the spies know how to truly penetrate a uh uh, you know, an anonymizing type system and take this back to Eastern Europe or subsahara Africa, wherever these demands are coming from.

And I’m not giving anything away here.

The the the NSA does not mess around.

That is the group that knows everything.

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