Hey guys, uh thanks so much for checking out my show.

I really really appreciate it.

Um thank you so much for uh for supporting me and my channel and for following along with all the stories that I cover.

Uh today is day 52 in the search uh for Nancy Guthrie.

Today is Tuesday.

I’m still back home uh in Florida.

This is actually our NewsNation bureau, our little bureau down here in Florida, although I’m never really here.

You guys know I’m always on the road.

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Um, but it’s been nice to be home for a couple of It’s been about a week and a half now since I got back from Arizona.

Uh, just to kind of see my family, catch up on things at home.

I do have a couple of things that I’m working on and I think I’m going to be going back to Arizona soon.

Uh, and I’ll have more on that for you guys.

Uh, because I just been working the the story every single day trying to follow up on some new leads and tips and information that I’ve been getting.

So, I’ll keep you guys posted on that.

Um, in this episode though, I’m going to be talking about the Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos.

Um, and if you’ve been following along, there’s been a lot of drama behind the scenes involving um, Sheriff Nanos and now the uh, board of supervisors in Puma County, which is like the governing body over Puma County, uh, being very critical of the sheriff, uh, having a meeting, which I’ll get into in a second, and wanting to now question him under oath about some issues, which I will explain uh, in great detail.

And and I’ve told you guys this before, but when I first got to Arizona, and I think I was there for like 42 or 43 days straight.

I never went home.

But when I got there initially, um I started to realize very very quickly that there were a lot of people who just outwardly did not like the sheriff.

And I was like, “Wow.

” It just, you know, I travel all over the country covering stories and crimes and it it just felt unusual that um right away people were coming out of the woodwork telling me about issues that they had had with the sheriff uh in the past.

And it was obviously a very contentious election and he only won by 400 and something votes.

And you know, I take a lot of that stuff with a grain of salt because politics does get involved and he’s an elected sheriff.

So, I kind of went into it thinking, you know, maybe this is just politics.

But the longer I was there, I realized that a lot of people had real concerns with the sheriff and they had for a long time.

And some of this stuff was now just kind of bubbling into the national spotlight because of the Nancy Guthrie uh investigation.

And I want to be fair to the sheriff.

I mean, I’ve never um it’s not my job to call out the sheriff and say what I think about him.

uh you know, but I do think it’s my job to talk to people who have these concerns, hear what they are, hear what they have to say about the Nancy Guthrie investigation, and then also try to talk to the sheriff.

Um I had on the sheriff’s um former chief deputy, longtime friend.

He was the sheriff’s boss for decades.

He was on my episode yesterday if you want to check it out.

Uh and you know, had a lot of concerns that he shared and and I’ve tried to get the sheriff’s um response to some of these things.

Uh but it’s difficult, you know, he hasn’t he gave me an interview early on in the investigation expressed some frustrations with me and my reporting uh and NewsNation just because we had highlighted some of these concerns.

Uh and I’ve had a hard time getting an interview um with him since he has done, you know, he’s done interviews with NBC News.

He seems to do interviews with some of the local stations.

But, you know, I guess the point I’m trying to make is I I do want to be fair to Sheriff Sheriff Nanos.

And some of you haven’t liked that I’ve said this, but I’ve said before just my um take on that on him with Nancy the Nancy Guthrie case in particular.

Maybe he did make some mistakes, but I I think overall his intentions are good at least with that investigation.

I mean, I think he genuinely wants to solve it and feels terrible for the Guthrie family.

But there are um there have been hiccups along the way.

Uh, and again, I’m going to get into that in this episode.

First of all, you know, and we’ve talked about this, him the decision that was made to take down the crime scene very, very early on, which is kind of interesting because at a press conference, uh, he said that, you know, maybe he um, regretted that decision or could have done some things differently, but now he’s basically in in any interviews that he’s done said he doesn’t think he’s made any mistakes and he wouldn’t change anything.

and um he’s happy with the way that him and his team have handled things.

That’s sort of been what he’s been saying recently over the last week or so.

So, he’s walked back some of the comments that he made early on about regretting.

I remember he said something about regretting maybe taking the crime scene down too soon, but now he’s kind of just taking the stance that they haven’t done really anything wrong and that he doesn’t regret anything.

Um but what’s interesting is there’s this effort now to recall him.

uh where they’re gathering signatures.

They have to gather more than 100,000 signatures.

And it has nothing to do with the Nancy Guthrie investigation.

Basically, there are claims that he lied on his resume and lied under oath or didn’t disclose things under oath about his professional past.

I mean, he’s been at the Pima County Sheriff’s Office for decades.

Uh but before that he was at the El Paso Police Department and um there’s a local reporter that unearthed his personnel file from decades ago and found that he had been in trouble and and suspended and and had issues there, a variety of issues and that um he was under oath about something else and asked about his past and whether there are any issues in his past in that way and he said no.

And that is the basis now for this recall.

Uh saying that he lied under oath and that he did not disclose these issues in his past when he um first got his job at the Puma County Sheriff’s Office.

So um there’s the recall that’s ongoing, but this has also rose to the level of, you know, it’s gotten the attention of the board of supervisors, which again is the governing body over Puma County.

And um they talked about it at their meeting uh last night.

That would have been Monday night.

And uh no, I’m sorry, Tuesday night.

I’m getting my days mixed up.

Uh they went into executive session.

They ultimately voted unanimously to continue to look into this issue to and to try to talk to the sheriff under oath about some of these issues.

And I’m gonna have one of the supervisors on with me in a second in this episode to explain exactly what they did, what his concerns are, and he has some other concerns about the sheriff uh in addition to things with the Nancy Guthrie investigation that are really interesting that he’s going to um explain coming up in a second.

But first, I just wanted to play for you.

There were there was a session obviously like every public meeting where members of the public are able to come up and you know speak to the board and there were many that spoke about the sheriff and there was also um the union president Sergeant Cross who you’ve seen me interview before on my show who is a sergeant with the department right now who spoke who you’ll hear from him in a second and they did another vote of no confidence for the sheriff and it was unanimous.

There’s I think about 300 deputies in the union and all of them voted that they do not have confidence in Sheriff Nana.

So I mean just think about that for a second.

Every single one according to the sergeant uh voted no confidence.

Um which is quite a statement.

And again going back to politics and unions I’ve covered stories where you know unions many times aren’t happy with the boss.

They’re upset with the pay.

There’s issues here and there.

But this does feel different.

the fact that all of them uh voted no confidence uh and I mean that’s they’re obviously trying to make a statement there, but I wanted you to listen to some of the people who were uh speaking it during the public comment.

My name is Lori Moore.

Sheriff Nanos is currently in the process of being recalled.

As a person helping to collect signatures, the mere mention of his name gets the clipboard snatched out of my hands, followed by, “Give me that.

This guy has got to go.

” Most petition signers only know of Sheriff Nanos from the embarrassing reports on national news excoriating him nightly for a pattern of amateurist mis missteps in the gruesome disappearance of Puma County resident Nancy Guthrie.

This does not bode well for the leading law enforcement officer in Puma County or the people who gave him that job.

The sheriff’s wellocumented history with the El Paso Police Department should have never granted him employment in the Puma County Correctional System, much less the climb to sheriff.

The signs were there if anyone bothered to look.

For example, there is a record of disciplinary action, including a multipleday suspension for police brutality.

I’m Sergeant Aaron Cross, president of the Puma County Deputies Organization.

As many know, a reporter recently uncovered the long hidden, terrible record of Sheriff Chris Nanos from his time as an El Paso police officer.

This this includes purportedly beating a handcuffed suspect in the head with a flashlight for which he was suspended and nearly indicted.

This record, if properly disclosed, would have likely prevented him from being hired or for becoming a peace officer in the state of Arizona.

For over 40 years, this has been concealed from the department and the voters of Puma County.

Because of this scandal, our organization, the largest union of deputies in Pimac County, has taken a vote.

We asked our members a clear question.

Confidence in Sheriff Nanos to continue in office or no confidence and a call for his resignation.

The verdict was unanimous.

No confidence.

He has lost the faith of his deputies and the community.

It’s no secret the nation has eyes on Pima County.

We have a sheriff that who has numerous lawsuits, an FBI RICO investigation, deputy on deputy rape case, a pattern placing campaign opponents on leave.

He has created a hostile work environment where in many cases officers or deputies question or disagree his act actions or decisions, retaliatory actions such as duty reassignment in most egregious circumstances to motion or sure to follow.

Chris Nanos is an international embarrassment at this point.

And I know that you guys didn’t hire him.

Uh we elected him, unfortunately, but long before the Nancy Guthrie investigation, this man lied about his record to get hired at the Puma County Sheriff’s Department.

Recently, he lied under oath.

And we know that he runs the sheriff’s department with an iron fist, abusing his employees.

We have one in the room today, Sergeant Aaron Cross, has been absolutely abused by this man.

Lieutenant Heather Lapen, who had the audacity to run against him for sheriff, was abused to the point that even though she was wildly well-educated and well informed and so qualified for her job, that she fled to another police department uh where frankly they pay her better and treat her so much better.

Women have been abused under this man.

This county has been abused under this man.

So, you could hear some of their concerns there at this meeting.

Um, much of what was discussed about the sheriff was in um executive session, which is behind closed doors.

So, we don’t know what the supervisors were saying, but I do want to play after the meeting ended, I was able to get in touch with Dr.

Matt Hines, who is um one of the uh the supervisors um on on the uh the board um and kind of find out a little bit about what’s been happening behind the scenes and and some of the concerns that he has and that other that the other supervisors have about Sheriff Nanos.

Listen to what he had to tell me.

Dr.

Hines, I was watching some of the the meeting.

Obviously, I couldn’t see what happened in executive session.

And we just became familiar with Sheriff Nanos, you know, when we started covering the Nancy Guthrie Sure.

story February 1st.

So, I we don’t know all the history and there’s clearly a lot of history with the sheriff.

There is some history for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, what are your thoughts? Do you have concerns specifically about the the Guthrie investigation? Does that play into all of this or is it mainly other issues? It honestly, it is a lot of issues.

It’s an accumulation of issues.

The Guthrie investigation because of its high-profile nature certainly, you know, reframed things and made people in all over the world and certainly all over the nation um just kind of tune in and more aware of of the sheriff.

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And uh I mean I don’t have it on me, but one of one of the quotes that came out of our sheriff on I believe February 3rd was um in in response to a lot of press interest, of course, with with this high-profile case, um he I’m not used to having people hang on my every word and and holding me accountable for the things that I say, which is not reassuring.

um and very much I think representative of so much of his uh career in southern Arizona in law enforcement, especially in light of the information we just received about how he I mean he came over here from El Paso 42 years ago and withheld his very troubling work history.

he would not have been able he’s frankly and one of the questions I hope we we’ll see what the what the lawyers recommend but uh certainly a question I would like to ask him um is okay so somebody with five years work history in El Paso with eight suspensions 37 days total of suspensions who came to your department today what would you hire them for if at all I would love to know that answer because the answer is he’s not eligible with that kind of a record for any employment in the county.

Not right now.

And I suspect that had those being been who were involved with the hiring process back in 1984, I think it was, known about that very troubling work history, he would never have been hired and he certainly would never have been certified through the a post.

That’s the peace officer group for state of Arizona.

Every person in law enforcement has to be uh have a post certification.

like I have to have uh you know I have to be a licensed medical practitioner to see patients as a physician and so on and so forth.

So that’s just what law enforcement have to do in the state of Arizona.

Same thing with every other state.

He wouldn’t be able to qualify for that based on what we’ve learned, especially based on the fact that we just found out that he committed perjury.

It appears in a recent deposition.

I can’t remember the exact date, but it was in December of 2025.

That’s not 42 years ago.

That is three months ago.

And this is it’s just unacceptable.

It is it is so it’s tarnishing and and it it really you have to be you have to have honor and integrity and and you need to be held accountable for the things you do when you’re in elective office but especially when you are not only elected but also the highest ranking law enforcement official in Puma County for the largest law enforcement agency in in southern Arizona.

You have to be held to a much higher standard.

So, what I continued to be surprised by, uh, I wasn’t surprised nearly as much by the revelation that came from that Arizona Republic article about his work history as I was by the fact that it’s been almost two weeks and we still haven’t seen his letter of resignation because that’s the right thing to do.

So, you mentioned that he he was under oath and he was he asked about have you had any previous suspensions? Is that what the question was? Yes, that’s right.

And he said no.

Correct.

I will if uh it’s a little weird to do this on camera.

Sorry.

No, no, it’s okay.

I I I’m pretty sure that’s that’s what I read.

Yes, that is.

So, here is the Okay, here’s the deposition.

Okay, there’s a deposition report, page 13.

All right, so here we go.

Um, so going back, they were talking about a lot of his work history coming from El Paso, all that stuff.

Um, and then there we go.

Okay, our experience.

Okay.

Have you ever received discipline as a law enforcement officer? Yes.

What was the nature or extent of the discipline that you received? Primarily, it would have been like, I’m not a very good driver.

Okay.

So, I had a lot of car accidents and you know, a letter for this or a documented verbal for that.

Did you ever receive a discipline that rose to the level of suspension? No.

That’s from a deposition.

He was suspended several times, right? Eight times.

He was suspended eight times.

uh and some of them we don’t even know what it was for.

I I was the meeting went very long.

Executive session was three and a half hours.

So I I truncated my public comments considerably.

Um but I hit on kind of the some of the highlights.

But um what I Oh, here we are.

I had it ready to I was going to read the entire disciplinary history which is a little bit excessive but because it’s like two plus pages.

Um yes.

So, some of it’s like abusive language, tardy, shot fired, that was suspension one day.

I wonder what that was about.

Uh, brutality, that’s troubling.

Um, more shots fired.

Oh, that was okay.

Failure to report for duty, one day, lw.

Oh, leave without pay.

Right.

Um, offduty conduct, threats, reprimand.

Um, yeah.

So, it goes on, but um, violation of rules and regulations, suspension, 10 days.

Doesn’t say exactly what that violation was.

10day suspension.

He had a 10-day suspension.

He had multiple one, two, three day suspensions usually for stuff like and that whatever that uh the leave without pay one.

Uh I’m sorry, I’m looking down a little bit because I’m reading it.

Uh so yeah, civil suit against city.

What? Okay.

Uh yeah, so suspension.

So it’s 37 days total of suspension time and it was eight occasions.

This is over five years.

And I’ve heard from so many people in law enforcement, they are I mean they are so they’re they’re apoplelectic about this.

You cannot you cannot retain this high office.

You cannot you can’t get the respect uh uh of your of the 1500 hardworking men and women of law enforcement both on the correctional officer side of things that are that are helping to to deal with the jail and um and also on the force of deputies side of things as well.

you you you can’t be the head law enforcement officer when you yourself at this point he let his certification that um the peace officer certification he let that lapse because you don’t have to have it in the state of Arizona when you’re an elected sheriff or a constable which is weird because we give them guns and an automobile two deadly weapons potentially uh so it was eight suspensions in a little over five years and it is kind of unusual to have any suspension for most of our officers.

So to have eight in five years, that’s these are this is a really troubling record.

He was frankly a bad cop.

Um I don’t know what that 10day one was for as I mentioned, but I’m scrolling down more.

Yeah, lots of derelction of duty, tardiness, unnecessary force and discourtesy, whatever that Okay.

Uh where is it? Excessive force.

That one wasn’t sustained.

Habitual tardiness, excessive force again, 15 days.

And I went back and looked at it.

In fact, I uh had someone send me the actual articles from El Paso’s paper.

Uh that he used his flashlight to bludgeon a handcuffed suspect.

So, right, I mean, he’s subdued.

He’s handcuffed, right? And he beat the guy so severely that about the head and neck that he went into the ICU and it precipitated a civil lawsuit against the police department.

He was initially suspended indefinitely and then once things got sort of adjudicated he was allowed to come back.

That was in March of 82.

That was like five.

Um and then habitual tardiness.

And then what’s the next one? Oh, and then eventually the next page uh for July of 82, insubordination and consistent inefficiency, which is like kind of one of my new favorite phrases.

Uh he was forced to resign in lie of termination.

None of that none of that came through.

Yesterday, my public records request, which I put in about a week before, did come back with 177 pages, including his entire uh partially redacted personnel file, as well as the initial application that he put in for a correctional officer and for deputy.

And in each of those instances, it asked specifically why what was the nature of your separation from the El Paso Police Department.

Of course, that’s pretty typical.

and his responses on neither of them uh reflected what actually we now know to be the case.

He said personal reasons and to get a better paying job on the first one.

I believe the second one was personal slash divorce and then to improve myself or to better myself or something to that effect.

Nothing about well I had to leave because they were about to fire me.

That wasn’t in there.

And I don’t know what if there was an oversight role lapse on our part as as a county because background checks were part of any application to become a correctional officer or a deputy at that time.

I don’t know why it didn’t happen.

Background checks are required to get a postcertification that peace officer certification I mentioned that pro.

So somewhere in that process clearly he was not being fully uh open and honest or transparent about his his history.

And that is an ungget overable problem.

We must hold law enforcement to an even higher standard.

Elected officials as well.

And he is both of those things.

And as I mentioned before, I I I’m you know, Richard Nixon knew what to do, right? Like I mean this is he didn’t put the country through an impeachment.

This is he he cannot I believe he’s disqualified himself from from retaining this position.

U so I we’ll see.

I hope he does the right thing.

I hope he doesn’t make us, you know, follow through with calling him before the board and having him testify under oath about these things because he he really should just hang it up.

So, you’re you’re a Democrat, right? I am.

And he’s a Democrat, too.

He’s a Democrat.

That’s what I wanted to ask you.

I mean, so this isn’t, you know, often times with these kinds of things, it’s like Republicans versus Democrats or vice versa.

But No, I look I I love this country.

I took an oath to the Constitution and I for the United States and also for the state of Arizona and I take that very seriously and so did Chris Nanos and that’s why look man you know you you conspired with and used resources of your office to deprive your general election opponent a Republican who I actually supported um of her first amendment rights.

He he threatened her with her job.

He he he intimidated her and silenced her.

He decided he that there was a gag order.

You have to go home, stay there from 8 to 5 Monday through Friday for the last three weeks of the 2024 campaign.

Heather Lapin lost by 481 votes.

That was a photo finish.

500,000 people voted in that election and he put his thumb on the scale and he did so using the seal right behind me.

He used his the trust and authority uh that was placed in him by the people of Pima County.

He used that and abused that trust and authority and resources of this county to to I believe to create um to to corrupt a fair election.

And I don’t say that lightly.

I mean I I because I personally heard I I will say I did come out and endorse uh his opponent Heather Lapen in that particular election.

And when I did that, I got multiple Republican friends and independents who said, “Oh gosh, I already sent in my ballot.

” And you know, we don’t trust, we don’t like the current sheriff.

We don’t like Nanos.

But we just, we saw some stuff that that came out in the news that she was doing all the stuff that the sheriff said she was doing.

So, we didn’t feel comfortable bubbling in Heather Lapin either.

Okay.

You don’t need that.

And I I heard from maybe half a dozen people or so about that.

when you lose by 481 votes that requires a recount.

I mean, it’s pretty easy to see that the voters did not have the the the real the truth, right? They didn’t know about his u withheld work history.

They didn’t know that he has been perpetrating a fraud upon the residents of Pumac County for 42 years.

um that the first thing he did when he set foot in this county and was looking for work in Pimac County was to mislead, misrepresent, and frankly uh to just lie about his work history and that is that is significant.

Do you think I mean you mentioned he should do the right thing in your words.

Do you think that he would actually resign just because based on I don’t I don’t know him well at all.

I I never knew who he was before Nancy Guthrie, but just my experiences with him, he he doesn’t strike me with as having that kind of a personality.

He’s a very proud and stubborn man.

And you’re right, I don’t know that he will do this.

I just know that um you know, I’m hearing from people every day.

Um I don’t have it with me, but I even got a kind of a funny postcard about it.

It’s not funny at all, actually.

Excuse me.

But I got a I mean, that’s a different way of communicating.

Usually I don’t get postcards asking me to do things.

In this case, get rid of the sheriff.

Um, but email every day according to my staff, phone calls, voicemails, um, coming in saying, “What the heck is going on and why isn’t the board doing something?” We have very limited authority.

We’re not the Congress.

Um, you know, George Santos, that famous situation, the Congress actually was able to expel him.

And I would love to be able to to do that.

We can’t even censure him.

I don’t know why.

It’s very restrictive in terms of what the county supervisors can do.

There’s a narrow pathway to vacating the office if he doesn’t respond.

If the board votes on April 7th, which I suspect they will, uh, in followup to our executive session and public item today, if the board does vote, in fact, to require the sheriff to come either come in person and testify, uh, after being sworn in, uh, hopefully that results in truthfulness.

Um, or or he can submit in writing, I guess, notorized writing.

He can he can swear in in, uh, in paper format, too.

If I were his lawyer, I would probably do that one.

Uh but if he chooses not to respond to one of our questions about some of the duties of his office, then there is a provision in statute, territorial era statute, that would allow us to vacate the office after 10 days of of lack of responsiveness.

But it’s a very narrow.

When you say vacate the office, you as the board, could you throw him out as sheriff? Is that what you mean? In that in that specific scenario, yes.

He would either need to refuse to refuse to be sworn to testify or refuse to provide sworn written statement or he if he for example if I asked or if we the board asked uh can you please tell us about the nature of you how you how did you come to be employed and and can you explain why you what why you appear to have provided false testimony while sworn in a deposition uh in December.

His response to the media here has been ah it’s a long time ago and do you want my high school diploma and my high school uh transcript while you’re at it and he’s m he’s he’s dismissive um and again not really answering the questions and I didn’t lie he was on the radio on Friday Bill Buckmaster show um explaining how he nope he didn’t me misrepresent his history in any way shape or form really okay guy so I I I don’t know but if he if He probably I would say this would be not following your legal advice.

If he ignores his lawyer and decides to blow us off and not bother either coming in after 10 days due to that specific law.

Um yeah, it’s ARS1-253 if you care if that would allow us to vacate the seat after 10 days of him not responding to us.

Or if he shows up and just says, “I refuse to answer.

” or if he shows up and doesn’t answer the question we ask like he talks about his corvette instead of responding to why he made you know what he did with his work history misrepresentation that would be like it might it might go to a court but pretty clearly that would not be complying with the with the statute.

Yeah.

And I was listening to you in the meeting.

You mentioned a RICO investigation.

you mentioned a high high jail death rates for years reaching out to the attorney general at one point.

I wanted to ask you specifically though just because again you know a lot of our followers are very invested in the Nancy Guthrie sorry my light um the Nancy Guthrie case um and and are frustrated by the lack of progress.

I mean, do you do you do you think everything that you’ve said about the sheriff, all of your concerns about the sheriff are playing into why we have not seen more progress? I think look that this the entire four decade history of his presence here in southern Arizona has been based on fraud.

And so the it it is clear to me uh listening just to the quote that we talked about before.

I mean like being surprised that people listen to their sheriff and want to hold him accountable.

My goodness, it is it is clear to me that he is not capable or competent to to lead in this office.

Um he is more than tarnished.

And I don’t I that’s not specific to any investigation.

the investig the most recent high-profile one certainly has been shining light on on things but he for example I mentioned the RICO and I didn’t spend as much time in public as I was intending to because the meeting was going so very long but I mentioned that because there is there is actually a video of him back in 2015 or 16 just laying into the FBI just scre just this this anti-FBI screed because he was about to be indicted.

The only reason he didn’t get indicted was because the guy who knew where all the skeletons was were buried, a gentleman by the name of Gagnapane, I know I can’t spell that.

He tra tragically committed suicide and then the FBI or the US attorney or whoever the prosecutors were decided to just drop it, though I suspect they had enough to to indict him.

So that that was very that’s something that the the voters did not like because he had been appointed sheriff um in 2015 and then lost his election in 2016.

Uh so when the voters are informed they make I think the right decision right which is very different than uh what happened in in 2024 for sure.

And just my last thing from the outs for outsiders looking in who don’t know you who don’t know the politics of Tucson.

Sure.

And and you’re very passionate about this.

It sounds like this issue with the sheriff.

I mean, have you had a beef with the sheriff for a long time? Is is that personal in some way? I’m highly allergic to to incompetence and certainly to abuse of power um like we saw I believe in the election interference.

And also it’s a Democrat.

I mean, how in the world can Democrats say things about the president? because he definitely does say some stuff about, you know, doing things with elections and voter roles that I don’t care for.

All of us from Attorney General Mays right on down are in lock step um saying, “No, that’s not okay.

Elections are run by the 3,000 counties.

Leave it.

” Fine.

Um so, yet we have a person in the sheriff who not only talked in some ways like the president talks, but did it.

He did it.

He effectively locked up his opponent, forced her to stay home, um, and then put out all sorts of false information about her using county resources and letterhead.

And this is a Republican that you’re standing up for as a Democrat, right? I mean, when you talk about his opponent, I would just say I’m standing up for the Constitution and I’m standing up against a bully and someone who’s abusing their authority.

Uh, and to to back to the FBI for a second because you were asking about any tie into Guthri’s investigation.

the the reason I mentioned that RICO situation and his very volatile response and angry screed about about the FBI.

It’s not surprising to me.

That’s kind of that’s informed me a little bit.

Uh I kind of had frankly that had that I didn’t remember about the Rico thing.

So once I was reminded about that and saw that video clip, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, this explains why he would never give the investigative lead role over to the FBI fully.

This explains why he was trying to say to the press why he was sending lab like I don’t know if it’s DNA or what for he was sending stuff out for testing to some third-party lab that the county has to pay for.

And when asked by one of the media members like why would you not use the FBI he said it was less expensive but if they use the if the FBI is involved in investigation it’s free.

So, like he would not he and they won’t say this because they’re professionals and they’re they’re not political.

The FBI has been so very frustrated.

Um, and so many law enforcement folks are reaching out to me to to to talk about the Nano situation, but uh and I’ve talked to two agents who will not of course say anything publicly, but it’s been difficult.

It’s been very difficult.

And so, look, I don’t whatever the reasons, I’m I don’t believe he can continue in office.

Are the FBI agents still I mean, because we heard that early on.

We had sources early on saying that they weren’t keeping the FBI in the loop and there was a lot of frustrations.

I wasn’t sure if maybe that had resolved.

Are you still hearing that? That is and maybe some of that is retrospective just from like February and now we’re we’re we’re approaching the end of March.

Also, at this point, it’s not the same level or intensity of investigation, tragically.

So, we’re we’re at a at of a different at a different stage, as you know.

So, no, I haven’t heard anything in the last few weeks about that.

That was u that was in the middle to end of February.

Okay.

Well, I appreciate your time, Dr.

Hines.

I know you had a long day, so thank you for doing this.

I appreciate Dr.

Hines for taking the time uh to talk with me.

Uh we’ll see how all of this plays out.

You know, don’t forget Sheriff Nanos is is elected.

I mean, elected by the people.

Um, it’s an it’s an elected position.

So, it’s not you you can’t just throw people out who have elected positions.

I mean, if he was a police chief or someone appointed by the board of supervisors or by the local government, then they can vote and they can fire people.

But obviously, when you are an elected official, um, that is just not how it works in America.

So, there are processes that have to happen like what we’re seeing happen with the with the supervisors, the board, and also this effort to um to recall the sheriff, which means that there would be likely a special election where people would then get to vote and decide how they want to move forward.

Of course, there’s also the option that the sheriff could retire and just be like, I don’t want to deal with all this stuff.

Um, but you know, my take on that just from what I do know about the sheriff is he doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who would just sort of give in and retire just because of all of this pressure.

And um, back to the Nancy Guthrie investigation, you know, we really don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes.

Um, you know, I’ve got some pretty good sources.

I don’t get the indication that there’s a ton of movement behind the scenes in terms of a suspect or a really, really good lead.

Um, I do know that there’s a lot of movement just in general, that it is a very active investigation, that they’re working hard every day, that there are new leads coming in, that they’re following up on, that they’re pounding the pavement, that they’re back in the neighborhood.

So, I don’t think it’s a cold case, but what I’m getting at is I don’t think it’s about to be solved from what I can tell and know.

Um, but again, I go back to Brian Cobberger.

You know, there was a lot happening behind the scenes that we didn’t know about there.

And and I was critical of the police and a lot of us were critical of the police during that time.

and then we found out later, wow, they were they were really making progress behind the scenes.

So, we’re just going to have to wait and see here.

Um, I know the FBI is heavily involved, too, when it comes to the the Nancy Guthrie investigation.

There’s a task force, so it’s not just the sheriff um handling this.

Uh, but, you know, he is technically in charge.

Um, which he made clear in that radio interview that I heard with, you know, he did a local radio interview that was a couple days ago.

I did an episode on that.

you know, he’s also kind of saying, “Well, look, I’m the sheriff, but I’m not actually in charge of the investigation.

I, you know, I don’t do the day-to-day, but he technically is, you know, he’s in charge.

He’s the sheriff.

You know, he’s he’s the top guy.

” Um, so we’ll see how all of these issues play out.

I’ll keep you posted with any developments on the case, um, and everything else that I’m working on.

And I again, appreciate you guys for watching.

Appreciate you guys for subscribing, uh, sticking with me through all these ups and downs of the case.

I just hope, like I say this a lot of times, but I I hope there’s a resolution soon.

I think of the Guthrie family.

I think of everything that they’re going through.

I think about what an amazing woman Nancy Guthrie is, some of these stories that we’ve heard about her and the old videos that we’ve seen of her.

Um, and it just breaks my heart.

So, I hope beyond all the drama with the sheriff and the politics and all the all that craziness, I just I hope there’s a resolution um for the family.

So, I’ll keep you guys posted.

Thanks again for watching and subscribing, and I’ll talk to you guys later.