Could tire tracks help crack Nancy Guthrie case — and is the FBI building a suspect profile?

Hey guys, uh thanks so much for checking out my show.

I really really appreciate it.

Uh please click to subscribe.

I I really appreciate all your support for my channel.

Uh today is day 67 in the search for Nancy Guthrie.

It’s been 67 days since Nancy just uh literally disappeared from her home right outside Tucson, Arizona.

A couple of interesting uh developments today and things I’m going to focus on.

I’m going to have Moren Oonnell on who is my friend and she’s a retired FBI agent and you know she’s like an expert just an expert when it comes to crime scenes and processing crime scenes.

That’s what she did for so many years with the FBI.

Uh and she’s going to talk about tire prints, the possibility of tire prints in the driveway, why that is so important, do they possibly know the tire prints behind the scenes.

uh she explains how the FBI has this whole catalog of tires and she’s really zeroing in on that uh coming up in this episode.

Also, she is talking specifically uh about why the FBI has not released a profile on who is responsible for Nancy Guthri’s kidnapping.

In other cases, she explains that um even if they don’t know who the suspect is, the behavioral analysis unit with the FBI will actually put together a profile of who they believe the suspect is and release that to help the public know who they are looking for.

Uh she says they’ve done that in the past and she’s confused why they aren’t doing that now in the Nancy Guthrie case.

So, we’re going to talk about those two points plus way more coming up in a second.

I also want to update you guys on the latest with Puma County Sheriff Chris Nanos.

uh you know, he’s kind of been coming under fire from different directions.

There are these allegations that he lied under oath, not related to the Nancy Guthrie investigation, but at his previous job with El Paso police, uh he was suspended several times.

Uh and when asked about that under oath, he said he had never been suspended before in his in his career.

Those those are the allegations.

Uh and now there’s a development from the Puma County Board of Supervisors.

They uh are giving him an April 21st deadline to answer questions about his work history.

Also, allegations he suspended to employees for political reasons during the 2024 election and also his communications with federal immigration officials since 2021.

And also, they’re accusing him of going over budget.

So, they’re requiring him to answer some of these questions about those things and claiming that if he doesn’t, there’s a way it seems he could be booted out of office.

although he is an elected uh sheriff.

So I don’t know how all of that would work.

There’s also the recall that’s going on where they’re trying to gather enough signatures to have another election to get him out of office.

So there’s a lot of issues right now with with Sheriff Nanos and of course also a lot of criticism which I’ve gotten into in past episodes and I’m going to talk to Moren about that too um about how he’s handled the Nancy Guthrie case especially early on in the investigation.

So I want to get into all of that uh with Marine Oonnell.

I’m joined now by Marino Okonnell, my friend and retired um FBI agent.

Marina, it’s nice to see you as always.

Nice to see you as always.

How are you? Good.

How are you? Good.

Good.

I’ve been busy.

I’ve been in Tucson for the last uh week or so.

So, just trying to um you know, it’s been now more than two months since Nancy just vanished.

I mean, it’s kind of unbelievable.

And I I wanted to ask you about what you thought about my interview.

you know, I had I I had this source close to the investigation, and I’m obviously trying to be really careful not to give too much information about who the person is.

Um, but, you know, there’s been a lot of frustration behind the scenes with the people involved in the case from what I can tell.

Uh, what what do you make of it? I feel so sorry for the men and women of that department.

I can’t I mean, it absolutely breaks my heart.

You’ve got Nanos You know, Nanos is just really pisses me off to be quite honest.

And I’m just trying to be nice because law enforcement is all about obviously enforcing the laws, but also doing it um with integrity and honor and hard work.

And that’s that’s what we’re all about.

And then you have some guy at the top who’s like picking his buddies to do this.

you can pick your buddies if your buddies are really good at what they do.

I I I almost don’t even care if you’re picking your buddies for situations like that.

But um I don’t know.

It just it just makes me very sad because the morale is so low.

And I know what it’s like to work in a in a place where the morale is low.

It’s really hard.

You’re going to work, you’re getting beat up, and you go to a dinner party and people are banging on you.

Your kids come home from school and people are banging on your kids at work or at school.

So it just it becomes this multi-pronged almost attack and law enforcement is debilitating in and of itself.

So it’s just it’s it’s it’s upsetting me quite a bit actually.

Were there times when you were at the FBI when morale was really low? Yeah.

Like there were a number of times um after Waco and all that where you’d be honestly you’d be at anywhere in public and someone would say you’re an FBI agent and I never liked anybody to say I was an FBI agent while I was working and here here come the Jagoffs, pardon my language.

Oh, you know what I want to know? I want to know this and how you think of that.

I mean, just imagine being anywhere and having people come up to you like that and you’re just, you know, I can’t help but roll my eyes as you well know.

So, that would be hard or um uh just a just a whole myriad of of cases that we worked and a lot of times the bureau came in as a like a cleanup crew after some other agency made a a mistake and but we are the ones that even to this day take the flack for it.

So yeah, it can be really really hard.

Um, and uh and and it usually comes at a really trying time.

So these people are having a difficult time.

I support the the men and women of the Puma County Sheriff’s Department.

Um and I just don’t support um Sheriff Nanos at this point at all.

Yeah.

Well, they had a 100% no confidence vote.

The board of supervisors in Puma County is investigating him and trying to essentially get him thrown out because of he lied allegedly lied under oath about his disciplinary history.

Um so he’s kind of got, you know, there’s a lot of problems for him here in Tucson beyond just the Nancy Guthrie case.

But yeah, I mean what the source was telling me, it’s kind of stuck with me how he said he everybody walks on eggshells around the department.

Um, and that they’re embarrassed.

Uh, and I’m just trying to think you’re trying to, you know, conduct a a huge investigation with the eyes of the world.

And meanwhile, I mean, that doesn’t seem like a conducive environment for that.

And let’s not forget the day-to-day work they’re doing.

every traffic stop, you know, they’re pulling someone over and the person behind you.

You know how mouthy people can get on traffic stops and now they’re saying, “Why don’t you why aren’t you worried about Nancy Guthri’s killer instead of this?” You know, I mean, it’s got to be nonstop.

Yeah, for sure.

What did you think about, you know, the way the source described what was happening early on that they were working on this theory longer than I expected that Nancy had walked away, which the source says, you know, they should have moved on from that more quickly and that um that the the the supervisor that responded over homicide, the first one to respond, the first supervisor to respond, had never worked a homicide before.

My understanding from my husband who spent 38 years as a municipal law enforcement officer is that it’s not uncommon for like a sergeant or a captain to be over a program that you’ve never worked before.

Your your job is to give these guys what they need, make sure they have what they need, and um to, you know, make sure things are going running smoothly.

That being said, you know, I think we’d all be okay with that if the lead investigator was a seasoned homicide investigator.

Um, by the time, and I’m trying to remember, and maybe you can help me with this, I remember very early on, you know, cuz your source is saying that for much longer than we expected.

But I want to know, I remember Nanos coming out very early on and saying it was clear to us that a crime had been committed in that house.

When was that? Wasn’t that 2 or 3 days after? Like so Tuesday.

I think it was sooner.

I mean, you know, this happened on Sunday.

Um I think it was in 24 hours.

And you’re right.

it he he came out pretty quickly because I remember the reason I remember is because that’s the reason I came out here so fast because when he said that I thought um you know cuz my first thought too was like older person wandered off like we see in Florida all the time um so it was quick but what this source is saying is that you know in the first you know 20 hours 15 hours you and you heard from Savannah’s interview you had the family telling them immediately she did not wander off.

That’s way too long.

There is no way she wandered off.

So yeah, Nanos within the first press conference, which I think would have been late Sunday, maybe early Monday, was saying something happened.

But this source is saying, you know, he he’s talking more like the first 12 hour, you know what I mean, before Nanos came out when the when the family and and you know, I picked up on Savannah.

It seemed like there was a little frustration in her tone when she did her interview and said, “We were trying to tell him like, no, no, she didn’t walk off.

” I would agree with that.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, the problem is a number of things.

But firstly, you have a walk away situation, which is what they have all the time.

That’s what they thought.

And even if a family says, “Oh, it’s not this, it’s that.

” You you you have to understand that this may be the first time the family is dealing with this is the this is through the lens of a law enforcement officer that’s responding to a call there.

The family may say one thing and they may be very adamant about it, but when a law enforcement officer has had years or whatever experience like the I’m talking about the responding deputies and every time they get this call the the the you know someone in the family says, “Oh, it can’t be a walk away because this has never happened.

She will never do that.

” And often times and and pretty much almost every time it’s a walk away even if they saw the blood at the front door.

Those of us who know elderly people, they barely scratch themselves and they bleed relatively profusely.

So, it could have been something like she cut herself, she started bleeding, and she walked over to her a neighbor’s house.

I can see them believing that, but I think I think it’s clear right now that they they went down that path way too long.

The other issue, the other issue that exists because of the situation we just described is that once you say this is a crime scene, it’s almost too late because um you know, shoe impressions are destroyed, tire impressions are probably destroyed.

Most law enforcement, you know, I’ve seen people yell at cops for pulling up out in front and not like pulling into the driveway, getting out of the road.

One of the reasons that they do that is because if there is any evidentary ev any evidence, they don’t want to destroy it.

So when we learn how to work a crime scene on the FBI’s ERT team, if in fact we’re working what we know to be a crime scene, a scene where a serious crime occurred, we are not going to walk up and down the front walkway.

We’re going to create a whole separate path in an area that we check first.

It’s a cursory cursorary check, but we check nonetheless.

And we check that pathway.

Let’s say we walk up the lawn on the on the left side instead of right up to the doorway like that.

We we’ll make our way to the door if that’s where we’re going to if that’s our access and egress.

And then we try to keep our um our movements confined to one certain pathway if at all possible.

If it’s not possible, it’s not possible, you know.

So, does that answer your question? So, we wouldn’t be going right where everyone else is going.

Now, if it’s a walk away, you’re going to go wherever you want to go.

Who who I mean, who actually propped open those gates and those doors.

That’s something I would do to keep everyone’s everyone everyone on my team.

Hey guys, keep your hands off the door knobs and keep your hands off the door jambs.

If you’re gonna open a door or something, we reach for the top in a weird place and and pull it open.

But you want to do that because sometimes often times when you’re in a crime scene, it’s developing.

You’re finding things.

You’re learning things.

It looks like the guy was over here.

I found two shoe prints over here.

So, it looks like this window is now in play.

someone go out on the outside and make sure that that is cordoned off or whatever.

And we’re going to see if there are any valuable shoe impressions or anything along that line.

So, these these scenes develop over um the course of time when you’re in there.

I could easily see a scenario where it was in fact law enforcement officers who did the smart thing and propped those doors um open and the gate open.

I also read I don’t know anything about this but I don’t I wanted to ask you when I because I thought of you when I was reading this.

I was reading some comments in um one of the podcasts by the interview room with Chris Mcdana and a couple of people mentioned that that that gate was notoriously squeaky like loud and squeaky.

Did you know that or No, I haven’t heard that it was squeaky, but I’ve heard that it was propped open uh with a flower pot and that the door was also propped open and that uh when Savannah said doors propped open, you it was a little confusing like we’re both back doors open that it’s actually the one door into the house in the back and then the gate that were both propped open.

But I don’t know.

I mean, it could be squeaky.

I I saw the gate.

I was able to get behind the house on this trip and I saw the gate they’re talking about, but it was closed.

But, you know, I didn’t hear it open, so I don’t know if it squeak.

I tied it in my head to that dog of the neighbors because, you know, a a squeak is a very high-pitched sound and a high-pitched sound travels.

And I’m wondering if that’s what the dog heard initially, if it’s squeaky, but you don’t know.

So, forget that one, I guess.

Well, I mean, you know, it’s it’s she got the house in the 70s.

I mean, you know, it’s an older gate it looks like, so it wouldn’t surprise.

I would assume it makes, you know, my gates are older and they all make some kind of weird noise.

It seems like when I open none of them are quiet, you know, and before you know it, you’re going to start squeaking, too.

You’re young now, but No, I’m already starting to squeak a little.

I just turned 40.

Um, when you were on the, you know, when you and that I mean, Steve always talks about how good you were at like the evidence processing and stuff.

He always gives you like shout outs anytime I ask him about But Steve is so good.

You got You don’t know how good Steve was as an investigator.

I mean, he was crazy.

Um, but when the FBI shows up, at least with the stories I cover, it usually seems it’s like after the fact, like you we get there, the local police are there, and then it’s like the FBI rolls in, right? Is that an issue? Like like same with this case, you know, they processed it and then this was unusual cuz they opened up the crime scene and then the FBI came and did their own crime scene.

But is it hard? Was it hard for you when you would show up to things because like you didn’t have control from the beginning? Well, it’s it’s definitely not ideal, but no, it’s not hard because if you have a if you have a CSI team already in there, they do a really good job.

these local teams, they do what most of us can’t do, and that is manage an entire team with like one or two people.

That is an it’s a really heavy lift in my opinion, and they look at things very methodically.

They they understand what’s important, what isn’t.

we can take more time because we have more people and we have a our our teams are generally broken up so that we have specialists in five or six different disciplines on one team and so you know we we love to train I I I could not go to enough training and that’s how much I love learning and I love learning from really really smart people and we were very fortunate to learn and some of the people we learn from in the bureau are people from uh local and municipal law enforcement agencies who are outstanding members of their field.

So we we work with each other, we train with each other, we um will put on scenarios where, you know, we we do huge operations where it’s a training exercise and we’ll try to dovetail with other groups of people doing different things like you know when we’re simulating a bomb scene or something like that or a large active shooter scenario at a big event space.

We we run these big things so that we so we can identify our own weaknesses and then we work hard to overcome those things.

So when we come into a crime scene, the the way you look at it is this.

Hey, this is what we’ve got.

This is what we got to work with.

Let’s make it happen.

Let’s do the very best job we can and let’s see what we can find.

And sometimes, you know, we’ll work a great deal of time on a shoe impression or a boot impression and find out it’s the boot of a first responder.

That’s okay.

We then we at that point try to look at it just as really good training because doing shoe impression work can be challenging.

It’s it’s simple in its in its concept but um it can be very challenging if the soil is very dry and um like sand, you know, you have to stabilize it before you can pour anything in there and it it can it can get dicey.

I wonder if they even did a um checked the driveway.

FBI team even checked the driveway at NY’s because by the time they came, you know, had been opened up once and that’s really when the media, you know, my team included all walked up to the front door and you had a bunch of deputies walking in and out and they I mean, they had cleared it by that point.

There had been people who had driven through the driveway.

So, at that point, is it just like why would they even try at that? I mean, or is it just No, because you can um you can roll uh First thing I looked at when I saw the aerial view, which I think was Mo’s drone, right? The first drone.

Yeah.

The very first thing I looked at was I was looking for tire impressions on the driveway.

I only saw one set from the moment that that drone went up cuz that’s what I was focused on.

And that was the one going into the spot where um um NY’s car parks as a general rule.

So she had two there were two good grooves there of NY’s car.

So you would be able to look at those grooves, look at NY’s tires, photograph them with a scale so you can see exactly what we’re dealing with.

The bureau has a database filled with every tire impression you can imagine.

and we can look at those um uh we can look at those photographs and they can make a cursory determination as to whether or not those tire tracks fit that tire.

But we don’t we don’t stop there.

We would do the tire tracks in the circle driveway.

The circle driveway is where I think the car pulled up to get her.

I know the back doors were um gated, but I think something happened that caused um caused them to go out the front.

And maybe it was that dog barking in the back.

Who knows? We don’t know.

I hope one day we do know.

But um I I don’t recall a whole bunch of sheriff’s cars parked out in front.

Do you in that circle drive? But I I didn’t see any tire impressions from the drone.

But parked more on the side.

Yeah, on the side.

So I would look at that um that whole circle drive.

I would have been looking there and um from the drone I couldn’t see anything.

But that doesn’t mean obviously that there’s not a really good impression impression that looked to me like her driveway is made of decomposed granite which is very very difficult to um to uh develop a tire impression.

However, with oblique lighting and a really good photographer, you can and and a great scales sets of scales meaning like um um you know ruler is is a scale.

That’s that’s what I’m talking about when I say a scale.

you know, those little rulers next to a fingerprint or something like that.

Well, we have the long ones for the uh tire impressions.

And so, you take just a multitude of different um photographs and you move the uh your light source from all different kinds of oblique lightings because the oblique lighting will pick up the ridge detail on the um impression.

So, um doing that you can you could they could have secured that.

We didn’t see that to the best of my knowledge and you would know better than I would, but I didn’t I didn’t notice anyone doing any type of uh um capturing any type of impression in the uh soil out in front.

I don’t think I ever saw it.

The thing is when the FBI came, they moved us all away.

Um and we did Mo did have the drone up, but you know, we could sometimes we were in the back of the house.

It wasn’t up constantly.

So, they may have been doing something.

If you get a tire print, can that help with finding like the suspect if they don’t know who the suspect is? Or does that only help like once you think you know the person and then you go see what kind of tire they have? Um, you know what I mean? If you’re just starting from zero, can a tire print help? A tire print can help, but it’s much better when you’re looking for a vehicle.

So, let’s say let’s say remember when they were finding those vehicles over by the gas station, they identify, oh, this vehicle.

Yeah.

A really good thing to do would be uh you find this red Honda Civic uh four-door sedan or something and you set up a surveillance crew.

You send them over to that LOK and they say, um, just find out if they have Goodyear 870.

I don’t even know what a I mean I know what a Goodyear is, but I don’t know different I don’t know any different type of tires for Goodyear.

So, let’s say they have a very specific You’re a car woman.

You should know tires.

You like cars? Well, I I know clean cars.

That’s I like a clean car.

But, so let’s say it’s a Goodyear performance tire, uh, you know, 22 in or something along those lines.

Then you’re going to ask the surveillance crew, locate this vehicle and find out, take a photo of the tires.

And a the cops all know different tires that as a general rule, they’ll know what type of tires they are.

And and performance tires look very different than regular ones or snow tires or something along those lines or like if they said it was a snow tire, that would be easier.

You could almost obser.

So, it could be helpful.

It’ll be helpful one way or the other, but it it wouldn’t necessarily you’re not going to run how many Goodyear performance tires were sold in air.

No, that’s not really going to be that helpful because you can’t really determine whether or not it’s a brand new tire or if it’s a I mean, if you got super duper duper lucky and in your um you took a tire impression that was perfect and in that tire impression when you turned over the um plaster, you could see a few of those little um black um like those tiny little skinny fingers that are on a brand new tire.

Maybe then you could if you knew the bureau could tell you exactly what the tire was and you could then see if any of those were sold recently or are sold around there and go talk to them.

But yeah, the whole the whole thing is is just a um a rabbit hole.

Just one in a series of many rabbit holes.

One other thing we confirmed this week was uh through a source was that um there were no and the way it was described to me there was no sign of an assault inside NY’s house.

It was uh clean.

Some rooms were described as immaculate to me.

Uh so if you’re going in there when you would do your evidence job.

Um I would just imagine, you know, if something if there’s a lamp that fell over, there’s blood in a certain spot, you would know to focus on that area.

But if if a place is clean and there’s no sign of an assault, like where do you even begin? Well, when we we went into a house once and we were looking for um blood spatter and but there was no nothing visible.

There was absolutely nothing visible.

So, you have to ask yourself, all right, based on what we know about this suspect, based on what we know about this case, where would we find blood spatter? You’re going to start maybe in the bathroom, maybe in the kitchen, I don’t know, the bedroom.

So, we just we just go room for room.

If someone was killed in this bathroom, where are we looking? And then we do lumininal and smaller sections.

And you look at the floor.

You can you can first do a visual with your flashlights.

You got to have a lot of really good powerful flashlights.

And um you look at carpeting.

when you um do like a black light on carpeting, if there’s some sort of a light stain, blood blood absorbs light like you can’t believe and it makes it look like velvet.

It’s so interesting.

Like there’s no other substance around that absorbs light as much as blood in my opinion.

So, um you you would just go room from room to room to room and if you’re So, depends on what you’re looking for.

Are you looking for blood? Are you looking for fingerprints? Are you looking for um all of the above? Which is what they were looking for here.

There’s also a case to be made in my mind where by watching that video Nancy did on how she made her bed and everything, she made her bed in such a way that and she’s, you know, tiny.

She’s only 5 foot something.

She could probably just get out of bed and fold her blanket over and then put it over the um the the pillow and it would almost be made right if she’s just on her side.

So, my thought is if someone really did just rip her from the bed and maybe put her in a tarp and just I mean, I’m not saying she was dead right then, but um you know, and let’s let’s say she’s laying in bed and someone punched her in the face just to subdue her right away.

Just, hey, I’m in charge.

No yelling.

Shut up.

We’re leaving.

You know, just one solid move just to let you know who’s in charge.

and she started bleeding onto her pillow and they put her on a tarp and rolled her up and then just flipped the blanket right over.

No one would have even noticed that blood until much later.

So often times it just takes the eye of a of an investigator or someone that’s done this kind of stuff to walk in, walk around, look look at the bed that’s not made.

the other side.

You can see how she very carefully made the bed and there’s there’s fabric under the pillow, but on the her side of the bed, the fa the the bedspread isn’t under the pillow.

It’s just flipped on top.

Let’s unflip it.

You’ve got your gloves on.

You open it up.

There’s evidence of her getting struck or something.

Now, that’s a whole that’s a section we’re going to really really focus on for a long period of time.

And then once you have that information, you can see how that would bleed out to Okay, so now we know the offender was right here.

We know that that offender stood right here.

What would he have done? He touched that bedspread cuz he lifted it back up to go over.

What portion of that bedspread would he have touched? Let’s look at that.

You know what I mean? So, you just go you go where it takes you.

You go where the evidence leads you, but you have to just be calm and try to figure out every move that may or may not have been taken.

And also with that bite light in his mouth, I’m I’m convinced that there’s plenty of DNA in that house because there is no way in hell that that guy left that bite light in his mouth for 41 minutes.

He couldn’t shout commands with a bite light in his mouth.

Right.

Right.

Right.

So he had to take it out, put it in his pocket, and now his hand is covered in saliva.

So there would be we would do hundreds of swabs in a situation like that, I would think.

One of the uh former homicide detectives who I talked to here, who doesn’t work at the sheriff’s office anymore, mentioned something to me this week that I hadn’t heard before.

He was telling me in some of our drone video when they were processing the scene, he noticed that they were taking perspective shots.

I think that’s how he described it where they were like shooting over someone’s shoulder pictures which he said he had only seen done at like a a police involved shooting kind of thing where they try to like see the perspective of someone.

That was kind of interesting.

I hadn’t heard that before.

Yeah, that’s interesting.

It sound it looked to me when they had the prosecutors there that they had some sort of understanding that a number of things had occurred on that balcony which was I believe right outside NY’s um bedroom.

remember when they walked in with the curtains right there where we saw that they were out there and it it seemed to me that was the ERT person that was pointing down and saying here here almost as if they were describing to the prosecutor what happened here.

And the reason that’s so important to do is because you’re planning for trial right there.

you’re planning for trial and you want the prosecutor to understand step by step what is happening.

And the reason that’s important is because when they have someone on the stand, even if you’re sitting second chair with the um with the uh prosecutor, the the prosecutor is really only going to have one shot at this defendant, right? event.

The prosecutor has to understand that what they have to understand what it looks like, how they’re going to move, so that if the person on the stand says something that doesn’t make sense, they can call them on it right then and there.

And that can that can oftenimes be very very compelling um testimony.

M and just my last thing, Moren, one other thing that really struck me that this source said um is that these individuals are either lucky as hell or more cunning than what we’ve seen in the past.

So, it sounds like they still don’t know.

You know, we’ve talked about was this just like some idiot, you know, who, you know, not a professional or is this someone who knew what they were doing? It doesn’t seem like they they know still.

Well, it could be both.

I I don’t think that they’re mutually exclusive.

I think one person had a lot of information.

One person shared that information with um you know, Mr.

on the front porch with the uh with the phallics gunslinger and his and his little uh bouquet of dried shrubs.

Um, you know, so it it could be both.

I I just am really shocked that we’re not in a better place.

What I what I would like what I would ask you to do, Brian, is you and maybe even your listeners, is to reach out to the FBI um behavioral science unit and ask them why they have not put out a um a profile on this person.

I know that we got one from Jim Fitz, but Jim Fitz isn’t privy to all the Jim Fitzgerald and and and um Jim Clemente.

They’re not privy to all the information that the FBI is.

The FBI needs to pull out a put out a profile like they’ve done for hundreds and hundreds of other cases.

Be they high profile, low profile, it doesn’t matter.

They have information about this offender that they could very carefully put into a profile to help people focus on that.

Why aren’t they doing that? Yeah.

They’re going to be able to they’re going to know how many sets of fingerprints they found inside.

They’re going to know if they found things they’re not telling us.

They’re going to be able to put all that together and put out a profile that reflects that without giving it away.

But they they’re they’re just very skilled at doing that in such a way that I think will really wake some people up.

And I just think it’s it’s very important and I think it should be done in this case and then people would know what to look for a little be more specific instead of just it could be anybody.

Um they’re tuned in to the to the witness um test to the uh witness interviews.

They know exactly what family members said about this, this, this, and this.

They know what the first responders saw when they got there.

They know what the neighbors have said.

They have all this information.

And so I think they’re in a really just pivotal position to put out a proper well well done profile.

Well, maybe that’ll hopefully happen soon.

Um Moren, I appreciate you as always.

Appreciate you too.

As always, I really appreciate Moren for taking the time to talk with me.

Um, and her insight is always so interesting because of all of her experience in the FBI.

And, uh, yeah, that’s about it for for day 67.

Um, since Nancy went missing.

If if you have any information, call 1800, call FBI.

Um, I said this before, but I still don’t believe this is a cold case.

I still believe a break is going to come.

Uh, and I will stay on it and keep you guys posted.

All right, talk to you guys later.