Um, you know, you’re not going to put a task force together and it’s only been a week or two now that the task force, maybe three, has been in place.

That’s that’s going to go on probably until this case becomes cold.

And it doesn’t become cold until everything has been exhausted.

And there’s a lot to exhaust in this in this case.

So what’s your definition of my definition of a while is it’s three hours till dinner.

Um what’s your definition of a while for a case like this? Years maybe quite honestly.

Um it it’s until you you don’t have anything left.

That’s you know homicide cases that go cold.

They go cold after years.

It’s not a couple days.

It’s not a couple weeks.

It’s not a couple months.

And I think with society being, hey, we need something right now because of our 24-hour news cycles and immediate access to everything, folks just don’t understand that.

This concerning is not a word.

This is not surprising to me.

This is just how cases work.

Um, we’re only 50 people say we’re 50 days into it or however many it is.

60 days.

And I’m like, we’re only 60 days.

58.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We’re only 58 days into this.

That’s that’s just that’s just the tip that’s not even the tip of the iceberg.

This is going to go on unless there’s a a a huge break like you said.

Uh honor amongst thieves.

I I do think there’s a good possibility that someone is going to say something eventually because money talks.

Um or they’re going to find something or a video or something is going to pop up and that might not be for a week or a month or a year or two years or three years.

Someone took someone’s car and borrowed it and it was annoying and didn’t ask and then brought it back or stole a car and returned it in a weird way and you didn’t even know but you don’t think you parked that way on February 1st or a an ex-girlfriend.

She may have not have been an ex-girlfriend that night but she may be an ex-girlfriend in two, six, eight months.

Yep.

That’s usually what you guys are right.

You go lick your chops thinking just wait someone’s going to get pissed off at this guy.

And and that’s usually a it here’s a secret sauce.

Most bad guys tell on bad guys.

That’s how 80% of good crimes are solved.

It’s someone telling on their friend uh or their cellmate or something because they got drunk or they got high and they said something that they probably shouldn’t have and it just it it’s the little crack in the dam that we that we need.

Um and it happens all the time.

[snorts] But sometimes it takes a while, right? Like and also the the bad guys who do this, how often they’re not professional uh secret keepers.

How how often do they eventually let on like their conscience or whatever it is that’s on their shoulders finally uh lets the floodgates open.

That’s hard to put a number on, but it’s high, you know, and I wouldn’t call it conscience or guilt.

It’s, you know, it’s bragging.

Hey, I got away with this.

And you know, you’d be surprised how many times they they tell someone they’ve known for two hours because they just became cellmates at the jail or the prison.

And that’s where it happens.

Like, dude, you you’ve known him for a day and you’re giving up your deep deepest secrets and he’s going to tell someone so he can get more day room or, you know, a better a better location, whatever it might be.

What about confidential sources out there? You know, I know how it works out there.

I know they have gang units, how they work.

Do you suspect that’s a really big part right now of this investigation is getting out to all the confidential sources that the police use, offering all sorts of incentives to say, “Look, you guys talk.

Somebody’s going to make a whole bunch of money out there if you guys find this guy.

” Is that part of this? Is it a big part of it? I don’t think it’s a big part of it.

Uh I that’s more TV stuff.

That’s TV and movie, quite honestly.

Um and we hang on a minute.

I am a a fill-in host for Dan Abrams on on patrol life and sitting next to me is Stixs Sean Sticks Lurin and he’s was in the Tulsa gang unit for a long time so he was constantly working sources like that right so it’s TV yes but it’s also real it is it’s more real back in the day it’s it’s weird to say that but years ago it’s far more practical than it is today um not to say it doesn’t happen because I I I worked a task force on my last assign assignments was a counter narcotics alliance and I do know that they had their sources.

Um, so people still do work them, but it it’s it’s not as as active or as as you know as glamorous as you might.

That being said, if I knew a bad guy or I talked to bad guys because there are bad guys who like to give up information for perks, yes, I would be working every single person that I knew.

And let me ask you, Bob, there’s a hell of a perk that’s not normal to most cases, and that is the the million-dollar uh reward that Savannah Guthrie has put up.

Does that I mean, is that almost like mana from heaven for investigators who do work with confidential sources to to go out there with that to say, “Guess what?” Yeah.

It’s not just the police reward we’re going to give you.

It’s that big million dollar lottery ticket you’re going to get.

It It’s huge.

when when when when the family put that out, uh I remember saying that day, I’m like, I think this will be a factor into whenever someone decides to give it up.

This that’s going to be a factor.

And again, it might not be right away.

Uh because that pissed-off girlfriend is going to happen eventually, but cops will use it, right? Like cops will be able to actually go underground and use that and dangle that out in front of people, all the cop.

I’ve got this carrot for you.

Uh it’s it’s not the the typical what I think it started at $500.

88 Crime was offering $500 for information.

That’s typically where it starts.

You’re looking at, you know, a million plus dollars.

Someone’s that’s going to ring true to somebody eventually.

Yeah.

Especially if this guy eventually decides to brag, although this guy probably knows there’s a million dollar ticket on his head as well.

So maybe he won’t have that bravado for a lot longer.

Um, what’s your theory of of what happened to Nancy in that home and then afterward? I I think whoever went there went there with a reason.

Whatever that reason was, it’s it’s it’s hard to say, but I I don’t think this was any type of random act.

Um I think there were multiple people involved.

Um I think they went there with the goal to take her and get money out of it.

Um I I do just just from the way they were dressed in the gloves and the mask and all of that.

That’s not dressed like Bobsy twins.

Not I don’t think they were dressed like Tims.

I think there was a guy sitting in a car or or more than one guy sitting in a car just like you and I look right now.

No, no, the guy on camera is the the same guy whether he’s got the backpack and gun or whether he’s not got the backpack and the gun is the same guy probably.

Yeah, it at least appears that way.

I won’t say it is, but it appears that the stature and everything looks looks similar.

Um and and I think that was their plan.

And I do think something happened uh during the course of it, whether it was inside the house, uh whether it was once they got outside the house or left.

Um and I do think whatever happened was probably tragic.

And I think that changed their plan.

And and so far once that changed, I think that’s why it’s been so quiet.

But Bob, why why TMZ? Let’s just say that the plan didn’t go well.

Um why would they then make it as big as they could? TMZ and te television stations.

Why wouldn’t they just seek out that communication, get it to the family and say, “This is what I have.

This is what I want.

” Because that’s the nature of someone who’s in their early 20s or or younger generations.

They know TMZ.

Uh they know they probably know how to get in contact with TMZ better than they know how to make a phone call.

Um you know, so the these are the little things.

And I will tell you, I I I I’ve heard stories about different ransom notes going to different places.

I don’t think necessarily the I know there was also someone in Tucson who was arrested for making a false accusation of some sort.

I think California and brought and brought brought to Arizona to to face federal charges for it.

Right.

So, and I think that was especially as it went on with TMZ.

My gut is those probably weren’t related.

Now, they could have been.

Again, it’s just it’s just a gut.

But that was put out there because they also whoever was feeding TMZ and they wanted to, hey, look, we caused that.

You know, it’s like these gamers who have these swatting incidents, you know, why do they do that? Why does anyone do anything like that? They get to sit at home in their lazy boy and chuckle a little bit and say, “Look, I got them to go off track for an hour or two hours or three or four days.

” Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you do you think that the any of the ransom overtures were real? It’s it’s hard to say.

I I’ve heard things about the early ones that would make me think that yes, they probably were were, but but then again, there’s also this the thinking that they it could have just been just, you know, it’s like a psychic.

If you say the right things in the right order, you don’t need to be a genius to be a psychic.

You just know how to play that game.

Um, so it’s so difficult to say.

Uh, you know, do I think that this started and ransom was going to be part of it? Yes.

Um, do I think the ransom notes were connected? That’s harder to say.

And that maybe it’s just a bizarre coincidence that the person or persons who took Nancy planned to try to make money off her realized that something went sideways and they couldn’t and then bad actors glombmed on and took advantage of a situation and, you know, lo and behold, sent ransom requests.

Yep.

I I I think that’s actually more probable than than not uh that exact scenario.

Um because that’s just unfortunately there it only takes one person, you know, not saying everybody’s horrible person.

It just takes one one person to sit at home and you know spoof their IP address and send these it looks like it’s coming from the Ukraine or wherever.

[snorts] Do you have um do you have confidence that this will be solved? I do.

And again, this is this is the copout answer.

It’s just a matter of when.

It might be years, but it will be solved.

Um, you know, some piece of evidence, some piece of information is going to put the investigators on the right track.

Uh, it, you know, Uni Bomber took years.

People have to realize that a lot of times these just take a long, long time to solve.

God, for the Guthri’s sake, I sure hope that uh it’s going to be shorter rather than longer because it is excruciating not knowing.

I could not imagine being in their position.

It doesn’t matter how famous you are, what you do for a living.

And I’ve dealt with families who who go through similar things all the time.

And not knowing is probably at this point worse than knowing what happened.

Yeah, that’s the that’s the problem.

And and you could see it in Savannah’s um face and her voice in everything she said.

Just the the utter agony, as she said, that they’re uh that they’re going through.

Um Bob, thank you so much.

I really appreciate you helping me sort of navigate through a lot of the stuff that I’ve been learning.

It’s um every time I learn a new piece of the puzzle, [sighs] I start over with what I think happened.

Yep.

My pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

Um hopefully the investigators keep following up on every tip and for the gut three and the f their family’s sake, hopefully this gets solved, like you said, sooner rather than later.

 

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