Hey everyone, I’m Ashley Banfield and this is Drop Deadad Serious.

Thank you so much for being here.

I have big news to uh share with you.

This is sort of the biggest thing I’ve learned in the last I don’t know how many days, but a detail of the crime scene at Nancy Guthri’s home.

This is day 58 in the investigation into who took Nancy Guthrie from her home in Tucson, Arizona.

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Um so let me tell you, um from the beginning, day three, I had a source that told me back door wide open, right? And uh a lot of other stuff too.

Uh, but let’s just focus on that for now because that’s the that’s the the information I’m I’m getting more on today.

And Savannah Guthrie gave an interview to Hodcoy on the Today Show and said her sister was on the phone with her and Savannah’s in New York saying his mom is missing and the back doors were propped open.

That’s how Savannah worded it.

And it seemed like maybe it was a misstatement.

Nope.

She said it two different times in the interview.

Back doors propped open.

Well, this sounded very different than the source that I had.

Back door wide open on day three.

I’ve had two subsequent law enforcement sources since that have confirmed back door wide open.

So, I started thinking and Gray Hughes has been very helpful uh in in navigating the back of the house to determine that there are three back doors.

Originally, I thought there were only two because you can’t see one of them.

It’s real hard to see it.

It’s like perpendicular to the length of the house because uh the back patio kind of juts out towards you if you’re standing in the backyard and then continues and um that door is perpendicular to the length of the house.

And so, um, I’ve learned that there are two doors on that back door to the left of the patio sofa, the one you can’t see.

It enters the kitchen.

That door goes into the kitchen and there are two doors.

One is the screen door and one is the inside door.

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And those were the doors plural that were left open.

So when Savannah says the back doors were propped open, it’s one entrance but two doors.

I had guessed that that might be what had happened.

That one of the doors had a screen door or a storm door, but I didn’t know which one.

And it is not the one to the right of the sofa on the outdoor back patio because there’s a lovely blueish door, you know, to the right.

Uh no screen door that we could see there.

Um maybe it’s on the inside.

I don’t know.

But the entryway that was left open was that one that goes in the kitchen to the left of the back patio sofa when you’re looking at the back.

So, that’s one big earthshattering piece of information that I was able to determine after talking to several sources um in law enforcement.

Another detail that really floored me was that the perpetrator used NY’s flower pots to do this.

He took her beautiful flower pots that I I can only imagine she spent time nurturing and making beautiful for her back patio and he used them for his evil plot.

He took her beautiful flower pots and he propped open that screen door.

Remember, I also told you that um my sources in law enforcement told me that the Guthri kids had told them in law enforcement that their mom rarely locked her back doors.

This might have been one of the ones that was unlocked and he opened that screen door and he propped it open with a flower pot.

I’m not able to tell you if that inner door also had a flower pot.

It is possible that door just stays open, right? Because it’s a heavier door.

And in one of the photographs, you can see it behind Savannah as she’s playing guitar in her kitchen and Annie’s off to her left at the um kitchen window, the kitchen sink.

that kitchen sink and window is sort of just overlooking, you know, what would be the flower pots.

You know, it’s just so frustrating to think that filthy vile beast deflowered that kitchen, that entrance, that family home.

But he did.

My sources say that’s where he got his entry.

But that’s not the only thing that he did.

He also took NY’s beautiful flower pots and he propped open the back gate.

You know, the area that you get enter the backyard.

Uh if you’re looking at her garage, the back gate would be to the right of the garage in between the cassita, the guest house, and NY’s garage.

That’s how he got in to the back.

and he propped open the back gate with again NY’s flower pots, using them for his evil.

What’s so fascinating about this is why why’ you prop them open? What was the reason that you needed those things to stay open? The back gate and her back kitchen doors, screen door and heavy door.

Why did you need them to stay open? Hm.

Scumbag.

What was your plan? What was your sick, twisted plan? Did you know that there was an elderly lady inside all by herself and you knew where her bedroom was? You just have to get through the kitchen, take a right, go through the family room, and then into the back master bedroom all the way over on the right side of the house if you’re looking from the backyard.

Did you know? Had you been looking through her windows, making sure that you knew how to get through that place in the dark? Is that what you were doing? Did you think maybe there is somebody in there, so I better have a fast exit? Because I’ll tell you something, Lindsay, my producer, and I um we went back in time to look at other sick, twisted criminals who break into people’s homes at night.

And if you look back at the Golden State Killer, James D’Angelo, right? Joseph James D’Angelo, he had a habit of leaving doors and windows open.

So it was so he would have a rapid escape route if something went sideways while he was doing his dastardly deeds inside.

He had pre-planned it, too, because apparently he used to stalk his victims beforehand.

Actually, we knew that from the trial.

You know, we knew um that he would stalk his victims in advance.

And there’s talk that this guy did, too, right? Because uh even though Sheriff Nano says, “I don’t know that we can really uh trust that the the picture of the perpetrator without his backpack and without his gun, we don’t we can really trust that that’s from a different night.

” Well, you know, Fox Digital, Michael Ruiz, uh, has two law enforcement sources who said it’s from the 11th of January, two weeks before Nancy went missing.

So, this guy was stalking Nancy and stalking the house and finding where the back door was unlocked and finding where the spotlights needed to be knocked off, you know, and and and smashed, right? Because we saw them hanging there.

saw the we saw those um those spotlights dangling by the other back door that goes into the garage or to a storage room.

We’re not sure what’s inside that door, but it’s not necessarily the house.

Um maybe he took those lights out two weeks early knowing I’m coming this way.

I’m going to prop that door open.

I’m going to come in this way through the back gate.

I’m going to proc that prop that gate open.

Those spotlights won’t be on anymore because I busted them early and I’m going to go over and those doors are off and left unlocked.

According to the children, Nancy would leave her back doors unlocked oftentimes.

And then maybe he had done enough stalking to know how to get through that house to his victim.

But then what? This is what’s so confounding.

So then why did you go up the front walk and right up to the front door and disable that camera if you weren’t planning to use that door? And eventually you did use that door because we know that NY’s blood, according to my source, starts in the front foyer of her house inside those blood blood droplets.

And my law enforcement sources say they then continue over the threshold and out the front door.

And then we’ve all seen Brian Enton’s video and Michael Ruiz’s video um of the blood droplets on the outside entrance, those tiles going down the front walk, stopping at the driveway, presumably where he loaded her into a vehicle.

So, there’s a lot of things I’ve been trying to think through, right? A lot of things I’ve been trying to figure out.

Um, did he plan to make Nancy walk at gunpoint out that back kitchen door and then out through the propped open screen door, kitchen door, and and and propped open gate and then maybe down the long dark driveway to where he parked in the dark, avoiding the cameras of her house.

Right.

She’s got a camera at her garage.

She’s got a camera going out the the front.

Uh, you know, obviously the doorbell cam.

But then did he think, “Oh dear, I didn’t plan for this.

Mrs.

Guthrie can’t walk that far.

” Cuz Savannah’s now told us that on a good day her mom could get to the mailbox, but there weren’t many days like that.

She said, “So maybe this guy didn’t count on Mrs.

Guthrie not being able to walk as far as he had planned to walk her.

And so now he’s got to change his plan.

Now he’s got to go out the front door with her, right? But we also know that it appears it was at 1:47 a.

m.

that he got to that front doorbell cam because the sheriff’s put out the timeline saying doorbell camera disconnects at 1:47 a.

m.

So maybe he was planning before he even went to the back to take out that camera first.

He’s he’s got his backpack on, right? He’s still got the gun.

Everything’s still sort of hasn’t been perpetrated yet.

He hasn’t used his kit yet on his back.

And maybe his thought was, I better take out this camera first because eventually I plan to drive and I don’t want this camera seeing the car drive.

I also want to know if this camera’s live and connected to the cops or if she hears something and calls the cops.

So, I’m going to like take that camera out and then I’m gonna wait.

Gray Hughes thinks that’s a good theory.

Like that’s his theory that he took out the camera and then he went to a waiting car far away, waited it out, and thought, “Okay, it’s time.

” At 2:12 a.

m.

, here’s another tip.

Uh the sheriff said that in the timeline that a person is detected on camera, but there’s no video of it because Nancy didn’t have the subscription.

But how do you know it’s a person? If there’s no video, how do you know it’s person? Well, often often you get these alerts saying person at your front door.

So maybe there’s like that was what they got from the backend servers when they did the scratching at Google.

Um but one thing that the uh that the sheriff said and I I credit Grey Hughes for this.

The sheriff said, “Well, maybe it was an animal.

We don’t know.

” Okay, well then it’s outside.

It’s outside because it’s not an animal inside, right? We know that Nancy doesn’t have an animal inside.

By this point, he’s giving this news conference.

We know that.

So that’s a bit of a telltale, right? That he says, “Well, maybe it’s an animal.

” But at 212, there’s a person detected on camera.

We’re still completely in the dark about inside cameras.

I think the sheriff mentioned something about additional cameras inside.

Um, but again, he said could have been an animal.

So maybe that is 2:12 a.

m.

He’s walking out on the cassita cam, right? It it’s it’s shooting the backyard and Yeah.

the back flood lights have been knocked off, but they can see stuff in the dark.

Or maybe the driveway cam.

Maybe he’s walked past the driveway cam and he’s getting his vehicle at this point because he knows he’s got to get it closer to the house.

Got to get it closer to that front door because he’s now planning to take her out the front closer because she can’t walk very far.

I’m trying to think of all these things and uh I’m I’m not as good at it as as people who actually worked in the business in the past, which is why I called Bob Kger.

Um I’ve seen some really good interviews with Bob.

My my colleague at at NewsNation, Brian Enton, has done some great interviews with Bob Kger and he’s a retired lieutenant, former SWAT commander for Puma County, but he’s he’s not with them anymore.

So now he’s kind of from the outside looking in and trying to analyze um all the things that he’s seeing from people like me and from and from Brian and from Michael Ruiz and Gay Hughes.

And so I called Bob just to sort of game out what this means, this new information that I got from my sources that uh the back doors were one entrance into the kitchen propped open with NY’s potted plants and that the back gate is also propped open with NY’s potted plants.

and whe whether he thinks like me or whether he’s got a whole other theory about what might have happened uh to Nancy given this new kind of dynamic, right? Is it a is it an egress or is this a plan to walk Nancy out and why then? Is there blood at the front door going out to the driveway? And I don’t think you’re going to guess what Bob Kger says because it’s not exactly what I think.

I’m going to have that for you in just a moment.

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So, Bob, all of this is so intriguing as we learn little pieces of what happened at Mrs.

Guthri’s house.

The fact that we now know which of the doors uh were propped open, and it’s just a single entrance.

It’s not multiple doors in the back were propped open.

Is any of this sort of surprising to you? Yes and no.

Not really knowing why or who propped them open.

Uh but it would tell me that if if it was the suspect who did it, they probably did it to have a quick avenue of egress to get out if something happened or went kind of against their plan.

Um and just so you don’t get lost in the house.

They’re going in.

Even houses are small.

Sometimes people can get turned around.

So there there there’s reasons why it could have been and you know a little surprising because you know it’s gonna I guess at one o’clock in the morning it’s not going to show up too much in the neighborhood but is the back side of the house but still a propped open door is something that you look at say huh that’s kind of weird weird but do you see it a lot you know in the investigations that you guys have done over the years do you see that a lot I personally haven’t no usually uh it’s either forced entry which is no way to cover that up or the doors are closed and just left unlocked.

Um to to to see something propped open kind of like this whole investigation has been it it is definitely a little bit different than uh traditional things that I’ve seen in in burglaries and any kind of call where someone goes into someone else’s house.

I’m also trying to think through the gate, you know.

Um so we know that he made entry through this back open door.

If you’re looking at the back of the house, it’s to the left of that little pu uh patio sofa, you can’t see it because the door is perpendicular to the length of the house.

So, you can’t see it from most of the um the drone shots in the back, but it’s there.

And I missed it at first and then found it later.

Um, but he made his plan and he went in those doors and he and he propped them open with the the flower pot and I’m not sure if he propped open the k the inner kitchen door but he propped open the outer screen door but he propped open that gate as well and I I’m gaming that out trying to think of so is this again what you just mentioned the the quick egress or is this something that guys will often do? Quick egress um if if most gates honestly most people actually lock their gates more than they lock their their doors.

Um, so to find a gate that was open and and again I think we’re assuming that he did this because I also say this, it’s not that uncommon for folks to prop their gates open.

You know, if you’re doing something going in and out a lot now, maybe not an 84 year old woman.

Um, a little less probability there, I I would guess.

Um, but but yeah, that’s you know, again, the the way just fencing and and walls are in Tucson, it’s it’s a little different than like, you know, just your normal cyclone fence and things like that.

So sometimes you can’t even find the gate.

So it’s to to see one both of them done is uh I guess a little more it makes a little more sense than just see one of them done.

So I I think I’m trying to think like this uh this monster, right? He’s got a plan.

Probably knows who’s there.

Probably knows who he’s going in for by this point.

The back flood lights have been smashed probably on another date.

Probably on the date that he showed up without the gun in the backpack on that front video.

Um, and he makes his way into the backyard knowing he’s going to hit one of these back doors.

And the Guthri kids told the police that their mom used to leave several of her black back doors um unlocked.

M um but it almost feels as though he’s planning to bring her out that way because if you’re propping them open, maybe it’s a good quick egress, but it’s also a way I’ll bring her out this way as well so as not to go out the front of the house because God, what if what if someone’s driving by? Yeah, possibly.

Uh if I were doing it, I I would probably go out the front the the backyard with the the the yard itself.

That’s easy to get through.

But once you get beyond that back wall, you’re looking at, you know, just desert area.

Um a lot of rocks, a lot of brush, a lot of cactus, things that are going to make you fall down if you’re not familiar with it.

Um it’s definitely a much more difficult route to go.

Uh and it’s not easy to get to a road or a car that might be waiting or any of these things.

So whether you’re carrying her, whether she’s walking with you, definitely much much easier route out the front.

So well, I’m I’m thinking he’s got the car at her garage.

So he just needs to clear that open gate with her and load her into a vehicle or he’s got his car down.

And I I think I’m going to retract that statement because I don’t think he would have brought the car up to the garage be seen on the camera.

I think he’s left his vehicle down by the road.

And maybe he’s realizing when he’s inside my plan to bring her out the back kitchen door, out the back gate that I propped open, out past the garage and down the driveway, it’s not going to work.

This woman apparently, unbeknownst to this guy, can’t walk that far.

All of these things are possible.

And and uh the mobility is an issue.

just the weight alone, most people don’t understand the difficulties of of carrying someone who weighs, you know, 150 pounds, 120 pounds.

It’s not easy.

Um, so all of these things are going to go into whatever plan that that he may have had.

Um, you know, personally, I think there was probably other folks involved, so maybe the car drove up and picked them up right in the the driveway.

Uh, but we we just at this point, we just don’t know.

[snorts] Yeah, I’m wondering.

I I’m not so I’m not so sure about a second per.

I I don’t know.

I feel like there’s no honor among thieves and there’s $1.

2 million at stake right now.

So, who knows? But, uh but I wonder if if if the of course the idea to give yourself a quick exit and run and get to your car would be a reason you’d leave those propped open, but also would be a reason I can just walk this woman at gunpoint.

I don’t have to carry anybody.

But lo and behold, no, you can’t.

You can’t walk her at gunpoint because Savannah let us know on a good day she could make it to the mailbox.

But most days, no.

So, thinking like a thief, if you’re back on the force, how are you now gaming how everything went down inside that house? Uh, probably not according to plan.

Um, you know, because whatever that plan is, things I I I think clearly didn’t go, excuse [clears throat] me, a way they they were planning those two.

Um, so you I however they decided to take her out of the house was was was that way.

um you know how there’s so many different options.

I I personally still think as the front door um and and probably just hopefully walking, but but again, if someone’s walking, they’re probably making noise.

There’s so many variables that go into it.

It’s also if he was doing everything via the back, why did he go to the front and dismantle that camera? because that sort of throws all of these theories off gaming what happened inside given everything’s propped open but he’s still taken out the front doorbell cam so given all that what are your thoughts uh something something happened probably that he couldn’t walk her out like like we’ve all said Savannah said that she she couldn’t walk you know except on a good day to the mailbox you’re wait you’re woken up at one o’clock in the morning whatever time it was um I think that was an an unplanned for event and the easiest way was uh quick out the front door to a car that was probably waiting or came up to to pick them up.

Let me ask you something.

If he again, he’s made his way in the back, he’s propped open the gate, he’s propped open the the kitchen door, maybe for his fast egress, but also maybe because that’s his plan to get Nancy out, and then he realizes he can’t.

So now he’s thinking, “My car is too far away, but it could be close and I could get her to the end of the front walkway, which we know is where she walked out given the blood drops in the front foyer, over the threshold, as my sources have told me, of the front door, out on the front entrance tiles, and then down the walkway where it stops.

” Do you think that he restrained Nancy in some way so that he could run back out and get that car and bring it closer? I think she was probably restrained inside uh in some manner.

But this is where I go back to I I don’t think one person could have done this.

That’s too much going on um to restrain to you try and stay here while I go get the car.

Again, I know nothing about it.

That’s just a a gut instinct more than anything else.

Um, you know, if he did do that, it would have been difficult because, you know, the driveway is not huge, but it’s still going to take some time and you’re putting a lot of uh lot of uh I guess respect what Yeah.

risk into what you’ve done to to leave to leave her there to go try and get a car to to bring it up.

[snorts] I was wondering if maybe being tied or restrained in some way may have caused the injuries on an 84 year old woman’s skin that might have bled.

That might have been part of the reason she was bleeding at that front door.

But I still can’t get past 212 a.

m.

and 1:47 a.

m.

because on the timeline again, Sheriff Nanos, who knows if you can trust what he has put out and if it has to be changed again, but he says that the the doorbell cam disconnects at 1:47 a.

m.

At 2:12 a.

m.

, person is detected on the camera.

There’s no video available.

But then he said in a news conference, it could have been an animal, which means an outdoor camera, right? It’s not going to be an animal inside.

Probably not.

So, [snorts] yeah.

So, uh, knowing that, I’m trying to figure out if the door if the doorbell cam disconnects, that’s probably the front.

That’s probably when he’s first arrived.

He’s still got the backpack on and he’s disconnecting it.

But why? Why, if his plan was to go in the back and prop open those doors? Uh, that’s a good question.

You know, if I had been doing that, the first thing I done was destroyed that camera.

Ripped it right off the wall.

Even if I was planning on using the back door because it’s that’s just another piece of evidence that is going to be brought back to me, you know, like it essentially has.

Um, but even if you you were doing that with the back door, my thought process is all right, it it’s just a way to stay off of more video.

You’re going to want to remove all video cameras as quickly as possible if you’re if you’re going through this scenario.

At least I would want to.

Is it possible that he showed up, left his car out on the road, walked up that horrible moment where we saw him on cameras at 147.

He manhandles it and eventually I believe he took the vines and pried the camera off.

But, you know, another source said the cameras were smashed off.

There’s glass shards that were witnessed down below by Michael Ruiz of Fox uh digital.

And then he went back to his vehicle to bring that vehicle in because now it can’t be seen on that front doorbell cam and then planned to go in uh through the back.

But still, it’s weird that he wouldn’t come out with her out that back way.

He chose to go out the front.

A and going back back to the car issue in that neighborhood, uh I don’t know if you’ve been there or not, but in most neighborhoods in Tucson, the car is going to stick out like a sore thumb on the street more so than in a driveway.

Even if it pulls in and turns its lights lights off at one o’clock in the morning.

Um people will notice it way more parked on the street just because that the dynamic of the neighborhood like that.

So, you know, again, a lot of different theories and where it parks and how it parks and, you know, angles of view of the cameras.

You know, I I can’t imagine he did a lot of studying on what type of camera it was to see, you know, what your field of view is, you know, to perfectly park it outside of view, but you’ve got the pillars on the side that are blocking views and things like that.

So, it’s not a rocket scientist to park it out of view if you need to.

I I think you’re right.

I think you could pull in NY’s driveway if you’re staring at the front of the house.

Her right-hand driveway, not the lefthand driveway, the right-hand driveway.

That would take you to the garage if you want to go there, but don’t drive all the way to the garage.

And don’t drive all the way to the front door.

I think there’s a sweet spot in there that he could have put a vehicle and stayed off of all cameras.

And maybe that he had I think this guy had seen it.

I think he had staked out that house.

He had probably broken the flood lights in advance.

Uh, I think the January 11th, again, Michael Ruiz from Fox Digital talked to two law enforcement sources who both said January 11th was that other image where he’s got no backpack and no uh gun.

Are you do you feel that that’s plausible? Yes, very much so.

If if indeed that I regardless of what the date is, if if this suspect was there on a different day, was there for one reason in my opinion, that’s to see what’s going on in the neighborhood, to see what’s going on at the house and to make plans and how to, you know, best succeed and, you know, kidnapping Nancy.

um which includes looking for cameras, looking for lights, all of those things that you know, first those would be the first things that law enforcement would look at as well once once they got there trying to to gather the evidence.

Do you think the whole notion that the the back doors again, you got to be really clear, back doors is one entrance.

It’s a screen door and a and a kitchen door.

It’s one entrance, not all the doors.

But do you think that stymied the investigators the way I feel? I mean, they always know more than I do, but do you think they that they’re stymied by the back door plan and the front door blood? No, it’s both of you look at they’re the same thing.

It’s a way in and it’s a way out.

Whether they’re propped open, whether you know there’s force entry, whether they locked them on their way as they were going out the front door, that it’s just another piece of evidence for them.

They’re going to look at the exact same way.

collect what they need to collect, um, swap what they need to swab, collect their DNA, all of those things.

It’s it’s not, in my opinion, any type of smoking gun or anything like that.

It’s just a plan that may or may not been used by by the suspect.

Do you think it’s fair to assume that they would have focused real heavily on those door handles and those flower pots for the possibility of his DNA? Because again, he’s he’s got gloves on, but he’s got a light, I think, in that mouth of his, and it had to go in and it had to come out, which means those gloves probably have some DNA on them, which means anything he touched with those gloves.

Um, so do you think they may have gotten the mixed DNA sample off the flower pots with the door handles, it could it could have come from anywhere, but those would be primary places to swab, to test.

uh anywhere a hand is likely to go, that’s where you go.

And then you just start looking around and it looks like it’s out of place or been moved, you’re going to hit those those areas next.

And it’s all just probability at that point.

Um you know, what are what is most likely to touch door handles and things that are are out of place.

So yeah, that would be a very likely source for for good DNA if they do indeed have any.

And there really are only certain people who should have their dirty little fingers on an older woman’s door handles, you know.

Um there are very specific people within her inner circle and then there are people who ab absolutely should not have their hands on uh her back door handles.

So, um, but that leads me to the question of the, um, the CSI efforts.

Like, do just as an out, you know, look at you’re in, you’re an insider, but you’re an outsider.

You’re a former, uh, Puma County, uh, uh, deputy.

But do you think the proper amount of CSI collection was done? Because originally it felt like 30 hours, man.

It was done.

That that scene was released to the family and then lo and behold, FBI shows up later.

But do you think the right amount enough was done to to gather the things that I assume they they gathered? It’s so hard to say.

And as as a you know, as you know, you know, armchair quarterback the next days, maybe they should have kept it longer, but I I’ve said since day one, I’ve worked scenes where we’ve processed it and then, you know, we leave.

And and you can only do what you know at that moment in time.

You know, you’re not going to cut all these walls down and things like that.

So, it’s so hard to say on the timeline.

Do I think they did a good job when they were there knowing the detectives and and the forensic folks who were there? Absolutely.

They did their job.

Um, that doesn’t mean that they could have overlooked something because that happens.

Um, and when you do that, you go back and you you just you try and write that ship.

Um, you know, to that’s one of those things where it’s easy to armchair quarterback and say, “You should have held this for months and months and months.

Like, we should still have it as a scene.

” But there’s a reasonleness factor that goes into all of these things.

Um, you know, what does the family want? You know, what does the people who have standing to the house? They have a right to their house back once, you know, the crime scene is processed.

And once you kind of looked at everything and done it as much as you can do, [snorts] you can’t really just sit there and hold on to it.

Um, and I So, that’s a long way of saying [snorts] it’s hard to say.

Yeah.

Excuse me.

you know, Savannah came back to the home, and I assume that uh her siblings did as well at some point, but I just wondered from a police perspective, it’s not the job of the sheriffs, it’s not the job of the police to clean up a crime scene.

It’s a horrible thing, but it is the job of, you know, calling a um there are services.

There are literally services that do this.

And I don’t know, I I never saw that kind of a van show up.

It doesn’t mean it didn’t.

Um, but when Savannah came back through the home, do you think that that blood still would have been in that front foyer that I’ve my source has told me was there inside the house or do you think that the police may have put a a cover over it so that she could walk through the home without seeing that? Like what is the protocol in that? I would imagine because I don’t know when the first day Savannah was back at the house was, but my guess would be that the local family would have already been through there relatively quick.

I would have if I were running this type of call, I I would have wanted them there as quickly as possible to be inside that house to tell me, “Hey, does anything look out of place? What’s going on that’s not normal to this house?” Um, so whe whether that’s one of the other siblings or son-in-law or whoever, but someone who has an intimate knowledge of the house, um, going back to the the other question, probably unless the family cleaned it up once it was initially turned back to them and and from what I saw uh from the video and some of the still photos, there wasn’t a lot of blood.

um well, at least with law enforcement because there’s a significant amount of blood, some drops here and there, you know, easily wiped up with a paper towel and some bleach or however you’re going to do it.

But yeah, unfortunately and and that’s some of the hardest things as as cops you have to do.

It’s like, all right, we’ve done our job.

Good luck with the rest of and typically we’ll pass on information for services and things like that, but that’s part of that side of the job that nobody ever thinks about.

You know, who’s going to clean this mess up? Um, and like you said, there are services out there.

[clears throat] So, was it probably still there? Unless the family cleaned it up, yes, it was probably still there.

And I’ll bet you, Bob, um, honestly, the media was there instantly, like on Monday, Sheriff Nanos had a news conference because it was such a big story, you know, 24 hours after it had happened.

It was a very big story and I don’t think anybody noticed or was able to identify that family members had come that next day to clean up.

Probably the opposite.

We we saw no family members for weeks um because they were in hiding.

I mean they had you know Savannah talked about it.

They got a uh a couple of places that they moved between and they they said the media was closing in so they they stayed away.

Great.

So, I just wonder if on that day, weeks later, that would have been such a difficult thing, would the police have been involved in saying mitigating how awful that was, or would that have really been up to them to to sort of deal with what the crime scene presented? You you would you would tell them what they were walking into.

You wouldn’t want them to walk into something blind.

Um, and again, if there’s the amount of blood at the front area, whether it’s inside or outside, wasn’t a lot.

And and that’s why I I I still would guess that the family probably would have done some clean up at least on the inside.

Uh if especially if they were there within those first hours before we before any news conference even happened.

Um now again if it was a crime scene, the investigators I would hope would not have let them clean anything up until it was turned back over to them.

But in that first 30 hours, you know, right after that, um and but but I I personally, if I were like passing on the information, I would absolutely tell them.

And that’s usually when the conversation would happen.

what can we do about that? And I here are some resources for you to try and you know so you don’t no family should have to clean up a scene period.

Um and it’s unfortunate that you know law enforcement fire you know it’s just not part of what we do.

So there are these folks who do do it and uh you know that’s why we can kind of help and guide in that area.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, by the time the white tent went up at the outside of the front door, I don’t know if the blood was cleaned off.

And those are tiles.

They’re sort of porous.

It may there may have still been evidence of it.

It’s maybe really hard to clean.

And I don’t know.

Again, we didn’t see any cleaning services show up.

And you know, there was live streamers that were trained on 247.

So, it’s it would be pretty surprising if that was missed.

Not to say it might not be, but it would be a bit surprising.

Um, you know, I wanted to ask you about the the searching because look, a lot of people in Savannah included are are almost bracing for the news that maybe Mrs.

Guthrie did not survive this, right? Um, and yet that would tell you that there may be a body somewhere.

So, do you have any any idea why the sheriff would rebuff the efforts of the Cinjun Navy, you know, wellrespected group that’s been around since Katrina at the least.

um offering free services to come and help.

Look, there were others that did as well.

Any idea why and whether that was a bad idea or a were there redeeming reasons why? Again, those are one of those questions.

It this is the Puma County is so vast, you know, do they need to probably walk through her neighborhood yard to yard? No.

Um and quite honestly, you know, unless they’re going to front doors and knocking on people’s yards.

taking a go in your backyard and look it.

There’s no real, like I said, redeeming quality to that.

There there were air searches done, granted, a little bit later than they should have been done.

Uh we won’t talk about that.

Uh but but but those resources were up.

Um I know when those resources were starting to be discussed, it was a week or so later.

At that point, I don’t see any reason why not to let them do it.

um other than making sure that they know where they can and can’t go legally because again this is the old west and there are people who don’t want anyone walking through their property and they might encounter someone with with a gun or dogs or things like that.

Now that being said, if these folks are doing it, they’re going to do it the right way.

They’re not going to kick in doors and fences and things like that.

They’re probably going to knock on doors.

Um, but I do know that the investigators did a a thorough search of the area um those first couple days, but you know, it’s a vast desert, right? That’s not yards.

It’s not private property.

Um, I I would think that they should welcome anybody that that might want to bring their resources.

You know, some of these guys are former law enforcement.

Some of them have ATVs.

Many of them bring their boats when they’re, you know, coming to terrain that requires boats, right? That’s why they’re called the Cinjun Navy.

Um, it just feels to me like that’s still something that could be done.

That’s still, you know, especially out in in in more of the outskirts areas.

Absolutely.

Let let them go do it.

There’s there’s no harm from them looking as far as I would be concerned.

So, the to answer the original question, uh, any redeeming qualities to have them not do it? I don’t think so.

I think, you know, a thousand sets of eyes looking for are better than 50 sets of eyes looking for.

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You mentioned something about the air search and I could hear it in your voice.

Um, talk to me talk to me, Goose.

What What are your thoughts? It just goes back to to some of the things that the sheriff has done previous uh before any of this happened.

uh the same reason why there were, you know, less experienced investigators in the homicide unit.

Uh because he chose to move investigators out who were experienced.

Um he and his crew chose to remove a pilot from the air unit who was supposed to work that day because of some issues that arose, some discipline issues.

Um and and you know, in a vacuum, hey, you’ve got to be a good employee, right? But if if you’re only not a good employee because you talk kind of grumpy to people or you know you’re kind of short with them, that’s just how a lot of cops are and a lot of people are in general.

Being a pilot is completely different than being just a not not just from being a patrol deputy.

That is a skill that we have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get you to a point to where that asset and and I will tell you this that airplane that we have, the airplanes that we have are the two most important resources within our agency.

Uh life-saving resources for their technology, for their ability to find things on the ground.

They’re more important than a SWAT team.

They’re more important than a homicide investigator.

um in the moment and to have that shel for even a couple hours because I’m mad at you.

Um that’s an unfortunate decision and that that’s how how many hours are we talking hours or days? I heard it was just a few I heard it was like three or four hours before a at least the helicopter was up but the helicopter in searching this type of thing.

Yes, it’s a it’s a better platform than nothing but it’s still not nearly as good as that.

I I don’t know the exact time frame when when the airplane actually got off the ground, but I do know it was several hours.

Wow.

Nano said uh uh let’s see, Monday, which was 24 to 30 hours, I think, when he gave his news conference around 30 hours after Mrs.

Guthrie disappeared.

Uh he said, “We threw everything at this.

We threw our air resources, dogs, we threw our people, and now we’re kind of calling off the search.

” And I thought, “Hang on.

Isn’t this when you really start? Well, when when you think about that, you know, the search is is going to go so far out.

There’s a science to searching.

Searching for missing people, searching for lost hikers, all of that stuff.

Um, Puma County is the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut combined.

So, you know, you’re not going to search every inch of Puma County.

I don’t, you know, it’s just the nature of the beast.

Nobody has those amount of resources.

Um, you’re going to search a reasonable area based on the information that you have.

Um, and I would hope that he was reaching out to his search and rescue supervisors because they are the ones who are experts at searching.

They know how far to go, reasonableness.

Hopefully, they’re working traffic cameras, which there aren’t a lot of, but you know, all the resources that they’re using, the nest cams from neighbors and things like that.

Um, because again, you have to be looking for something and you have there’s the at some point you do have to say, “All right, we’ve we’ve done everything.

Now, could we search every inch in a grid search?” Yes.

is going to take hundreds of years probably to do all of Puma County.

So again, that’s one of those armchair quarterbacking decisions.

We’ve done this before.

We they the sheriff’s department has done this before.

Um this isn’t the first time a a person has gone missing and you know they do they are the experts between search and rescue and the investigators.

Um they know what to do and so they’re talking and making these decisions as a group I would hope.

Well, Puma County is big and yet gosh, I don’t know how many weeks ago it was.

I had a law enforcement source who told me that the uh search for Nancy extended into a neighboring county uh with the signal sniffer.

Did you hear much about the success or the frustrations with that? I I heard about I I don’t know that the the all on details of of the sniffer.

I actually I’ve talked to some of the folks who worked with it, so I’m familiar with it.

Um and and you know I know that there was a search done at the landfill by a device or or an airplane out of Ryan Field which is on the western suburbs uh uh of Puma County and I because I saw it slight pattern and all that.

I mean clearly it was searching for that.

Um it wouldn’t just go over a landfill for no for any other reason.

And yet the sheriff said it didn’t have anything to do with law enforcement.

[sighs and gasps] I find that hard to believe the the timing and that you’re not doing a LAR search of of a landfill for for any other reason.

And I’m not saying they were LAR.

I if I had if I were a betting man, they were sniffing because that was when it was very hot on the possibility that they could still get a single from from a pacemaker.

Well, that pacemaker will continue to emit signals for years.

Yes.

Um, so do you think that they’ll continue to use that LAR um effort and and or is that kind of like a one and done? They they will if they get something to go on again because not knowing, you know, my guess is if it’s off a Bluetooth signal, that’s a much shorter area.

You have to be within a certain distance of the ground.

I could imagine like 800 feet.

That’s what that’s what many of the tech experts got behind it.

That’s 800,000.

Yeah, that’s that’s much more than I would have thought.

Um, so it’s it’s still it’s still viable, but again, how do you do it? You know, resource management and you know, uh, one thing I brought up with some other folks, there is still a budget associated with this and it’s horrible to say, um, you know, but the sheriff’s department, the FBI, they are a business, not a business, but you know what I mean.

They have budget.

They’ve got they’ve got limited resources.

They’ve got limited resources.

Exactly.

So, you know, would I love to be able to fly a drone all over every inch of Pima County for the next however many hours, days, months, weeks it would take to see if we could find it? Yes.

Is that practical? It’s really not.

Um, so again, it’s a balancing act.

It’s like I keep thinking about when I covered um the missing MH370 in the Indian Ocean and I remember it’s it’s smaller than a needle in a hay stack, you know, and it was just so frustrating.

Um to that end, do you have any idea about the task force? Like when does that start to to draw down as well? Because it it 400 officers drew down to a task force.

When does that start to draw down? I think that that’ll stay in play for quite a while because if if you look at what they’re doing now, they’re following up on leads.

If if you know the number that was thrown out there early on was 40,000 leads in the first couple weeks, it would take months and months to go through that amount of leads.

So, what they’re doing now is probably just that.

Um, following up on those, going back out, knocking on doors, knocking on doors of folks who might not have been in town, you know, who might not even know this is going on because they don’t follow the media for whatever reasons.

So, I do think that task force will stay in play for a while.

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