you have the exigency if Nancy still alive in order to see if you can’t generate more tips, you know, and and of course we now have this phenomena of the online sleuth and I probably have the most experience of anybody with the online soothing community because I work Zodiac and I work Golden State Killer and I was hammered by both, you know, groups and there’s a lot of overlap with them and and there’s individuals ual that have great skill sets that law enforcement doesn’t have.

You know, then there’s individuals that have great intentions and they provide decent information, but then you have a bunch that are just killing us in terms of, you know, misinformation and bad leads that we need to follow up on.

So, it’s very much a pro and con thing with the online soothing thing.

you know, with with the Guthrie case, this is, you know, the the issue is going to be is that law enforcement hasn’t released a lot of information.

So, the online slleuth don’t have the facts in order to be able to actually go after something that has a nexus to the case, right? And then when Sheriff Nanos does release something, he retracts it and then it’s actually, you know, actually it’s actually discovered to be erroneous because people in the community say that actually didn’t happen when he said it did.

It’s just been a big hot mess.

Well, and and and and I will say, you know, this is where Yeah.

when you have elected sheriffs, I mean, they are way up on the ladder rung, right? So what ends up happening is the information that they get are coming from detective sergeants that go to a lieutenant that go to a captain that go to a commander or assistant sheriff finally to the sheriff.

So now you have the whole telephone game going on and now he’s putting out information as he has been told and it’s already been altered by the time he’s hearing it.

I’ve seen that time and time again.

That’s interesting.

So do PIOS go to the base level and get what they need and skip the whole telephone chain? PIOS usually speak in terms which they are able to provide information but it’s not where somebody can go oh no you’re wrong here.

You know, PIOS are very very good at at least providing information that the media is going, “Okay, we’re good.

” without getting down into the details where now people are fact-checking them.

Right.

Right.

And they do offiscate and and I know they have a hard job.

I I’ve worked with them for 38 years.

So, okay.

So it’s it’s obvious that the natural order of things will show that this um task force will get smaller eventually that those who are assigned to the case will be reassigned and eventually you know this case might have one or two or three or even just one person on it which is hard for anybody everybody who’s so invested in this particularly the Guthrie family.

Yeah that’s hard for them to to realize but it’s like you said it’s the natural order.

Talk to me a little bit about the other news that my source told me this week.

A couple things.

Um, first and foremost, that the family has told the police that Nancy Gust 3 rarely locked her back doors.

And I want to make a correction.

I said this earlier, but I want to make a correction.

Um, she has three back doors.

Two of them are visible with the drone shots that have gone around the back of the house.

One of them is not visible because it’s uh it’s it’s vertical, you know, it’s it’s perpendicular to the to the picture, so you can’t see it, but there is a third back door.

So, now knowing there’s uh three back doors, um that Nancy Guthrie apparently rarely locked her back doors, how does that in your opinion affect the way investigators go about this case knowing that this perpetrator got in somehow? Well, obviously that, you know, unlocked doors are an easy thing for offenders to be able to go through and and we see it commonly uh with, you know, serial burglars, serial rapists.

They literally will walk through neighborhoods and just randomly start checking doors going from house to house and the house that has an unlocked door, they go in on that exact visit or will they check and then note it for later? It depends.

It It really depends on the offender.

We have offenders that will just go in, you know, and and and victimize.

So, it’s the randomness of whoever on that block left the door open.

No matter whether there’s seven people in the house or one people, one person living there.

Absolutely.

You know, this is uh Sacramento.

Man, that’s that’s high risk.

Well, it is, you know, but this is where, you know, you are dealing with offenders that are willing to do this, you know, and sometimes it’s it’s a simple neighborhood burglar who’s only interested in property crime and he’s just going around and he’s checking front doors or he’s checking the rear slider and then when he finds something, he goes in.

If there’s a dog barking inside, he moves on to the next house because he has a hundred houses that he can go into.

So, you know, when when you start talking about NY’s uh victimology about leaving these rear doors open, you know, if this offender targeted Nancy, it’s possible ahead of time he started doing surveillance.

He started doing security checks, he started trying to figure out, you know, how I can easily get into the house.

The easier they can get in the house, the better it is for the offender.

Now, if I remember right from a previous conversation we had, I think there were multiple security cameras throughout the property that had been smashed, right? Well, my source told me early on, plural nest cams smashed.

And then we learned later on they were nest cams.

We also learned later on that the front nest cam was off its mount and gone.

And Michael Ruiz from Fox News Digital said that there were glass shards seen underneath or or glass fragments seen underneath the um camera mount and we saw spotlights in the back that clearly had been smashed and were dangling.

So I can’t tell you if multiple cameras had been smashed.

A source said it.

We saw at least spotlight smashed and we saw uh a one camera at the front smashed or taken or whatever off its mount and others that had been left by by the perpetrator and by the cops.

Well, and and and so, okay, let’s let’s make the assumption Nancy had multiple cameras distributed throughout her property.

Multiple cameras were smashed.

You have multiple points of entry with these doors that were unlocked in the backside or the side parts of this house.

And I know it’s somewhat of a complex layout with this house.

The offender is taking an action to prevent being seen with these other cameras.

And yet he walks up to her front porch and pretends like, “Oh, there’s a camera here.

What am I going to do with this camera? home, I’ll get some, you know, shrubs and try to cover it up.

I mean, for me, it it just is so telling and so obvious that the offender wanted to be seen on that front porch wearing that costume.

This is staging.

He took all the other steps needed to obscure how he got into the house, how he possibly got out of the house maybe, um, you know, by smashing these other cameras.

He has knowledge about this property.

That’s where that video surveillance of him on the front porch is so compelling to me and tells me he he is sitting here trying to make this crime look like something that it is not.

And it’s, oh, I’m the bad guy here with a gun and I’m going in to abduct Nancy and ask for ransom.

Well, no, that wasn’t his true intent.

He went in there to hurt Nancy.

Do you think it’s possible that this guy had worked in that backyard once, twice, many times before, saw the pattern that those doors don’t get locked every time she goes in and out of them, and returned that night? But decided to do the camera in the front end so that he could take her out that way and you never saw his car leave.

It’s less about trying not to be on camera.

It’s more about making sure his car once he takes her out that front door and loads her in the car isn’t seen on camera.

That’s that’s a possibility for the camera.

But I think you’re spot on.

And this is what I’ve been saying from the very beginning is you know what this guy if if I’m right and he is staging this crime, you know, you have to go back possibly two years.

Who are the delivery drivers? Who worked for UPS, FedEx? Who are the mailmen? Who were the contractors that did work in NY’s house? who were the landscapers that did work on her property or whatever, you know, electricians, heating, cooling.

I mean, there’s untold number of servicemen that come and work on a a single older woman’s home.

And and and I don’t know um you know what NY’s house is like on the inside.

I have a case in which some gang bangers were working for a delivery service.

They went in and delivered a lamp in a upper end neighborhood and they saw all the nice stuff inside that that house and a week later they came back and ultimately the husband, the homeowner was killed as he was trying to save his wife.

You don’t know who you’re letting into your house.

And that’s where I’m looking at this going, okay, if if he is if he is misdirecting this, if he’s recognizing, oh, this family has well, he may not even know anything about Savannah Guthrie, he may just have been in NY’s house going, oh wow, there’s a lot of nice stuff in here.

you know, they got assets, but decided that she was going to be a victim because she fit something.

either she, you know, had an a negative interaction with him, maybe bad words back and forth, or, you know, he saw her and she fit what his sexual fantasies were and he’s going, I’m going to go back there, but I know I can, you know, have law enforcement go down the wrong path because they have money and so I’m going to say I want a ransom.

I’m going to remove her from the house and have a ransom.

That is a distinct possibility and that’s where if if if I were being pulled into this case, you know, now at this point, I’m going to go, how much have you guys considered this possibility? Or have you looked at as strictly an abduction ransom case? If the Pima County Sheriff’s Department were to reach out to someone like you um with your skills and you heaven’s sake, you caught the Golden State Killer after decades, would you go? Oh, absolutely.

You know, this is, you know, this is the type of case that’s in my wheelhouse.

You know, I understand this type of offender.

I would want to get all the information so I could evaluate the offender’s actions, the offender’s behaviors, the forensic evidence, and maybe be able to provide some insight.

You know, I can never say that I’m going to come into a case and solve the case.

I am entirely confident I can come into a case and advance the case.

You feel like you could help? I absolutely feel I could help, for sure.

Might you offer your assistance, Paul, or do you want to just sort of wait to see if it’s needed? You know, you know, the funny thing is is now that I’m retired, you know, law enforcement sees me as media.

So, me just calling up and saying, “Hey, do you want my help?” Law enforcement doesn’t accept help from media.

So, somebody would need to recognize that I could contribute versus me just doing a cold call.

Well, I hope the sheriff starts reaching out soon cuz I get scared when I hear we ain’t got Maybe it’s time to bring in the fresh eyes.

Yep.

Well, I’d be there if they called me in a heartbeat.

Absolutely.

Let’s talk about the the blood in the front hall entrance inside the home because that’s another sourced information I got this week.

Um, and I think it was two podcasts ago or yesterday’s podcast.

I’m It’s blurs day.

I’m losing track of days.

Um but uh my source told me that the originally there’s blood inside the home.

Day three I learned that.

Okay.

Couple weeks ago I learned that the blood pattern outside the home on the front porch and down the front walk is mirrored inside the home.

Same blood pattern exists inside the home, but I didn’t know where.

And then yesterday um or two days ago, I learned that that inside blood pattern is actually just inside the front door.

So you go over the hearth uh over the threshold of the uh front door into that front hallway entrance of NY’s home and that’s where the blood droplets are, but nowhere else.

What What does that tell you? So, you know, it’s it’s without having Nancy and her wounds.

You know, it we always when you do blood pattern interpretation, you always want to know what you know the wounds are, what was severed.

Do you have arteries severed? Do you have, you know, veins severed, etc.

However, with what I saw on the front porch is a dripped pattern.

Now there are some other smaller spatter which might be blood dripping into blood.

Um but at least the media photographs don’t give me enough information.

But having blood drips inside the the the front door right there in that front entry, that only tells me that I have a bleeding source from Nancy that is dripping blood at that point in time.

Now, is that, you know, does that occur inside and then she’s brought outside or she gets herself outside or vice versa? You can’t make that conclusion.

However, part of the issue that we deal with is that okay, when did the bleeding injury occur and I’ve worked many stabbing cases and people are stabbed in the chest and there’s no blood at the crime scene.

They bleed internally and any blood that they’re externally bleeding from the stab wounds gets absorbed by the shirt or whatever type of clothing that they have on.

So if we were to make the assumption that the dripped blood inside the house by the front door was the earliest blood drops.

All that tells me is that that’s the moment in time in which the bleeding source was able to provide enough blood to be able to be deposited.

And it may have been immediately she could have been hit on the head, pistolhipped.

Now she has a laceration to her skull.

Now she’s dripping blood from her scalp inside that front door.

And then she goes outside.

She could have been stabbed in the chest.

in the bedroom and now she’s been carried out and now the blood has saturated the garment that she has on and now it’s dripping.

We can’t conclude anything based on that outside is we don’t have motion.

We don’t have, let’s say, a a cut finger and and NY’s flailing and now we have like castoff type patterns or we have spatter because we now have a blow to a pulled blood source.

It’s super frustrating and also I keep using the word vexing because every time I think I find something out that might be informative in the investigation, it just has a million more questions that attach to it.

Like when I discovered that there was blood just inside the door and nowhere else, I thought, “Aha, now we’re getting somewhere.

” But maybe not.

No, you know, and and and this is where, you know, part of my frustration because I was on the other side and I had access to everything when I worked my cases, you know, and and so now being more on this side where I am now having to, you know, learn from you and learning learning from the headlines, you know, what are they finding? It’s so hard to have a complete picture and that’s where I always caution people is that, you know, law enforcement generally has a lot more knowledge about the case than what they’re letting on.

You know, the hope is is that there’s, you know, some direction that they’re able to take that’s going to solve the case.

You mean paddling underneath the water really, really fast where you can’t see it above the water? That’s what I thought, Paul Holes.

That’s what I thought at this point.

I had hoped.

I had so much optimism that that was what was happening under the surface.

And then I heard quote, “We ain’t got shit.

” Well, they do, you know, and that’s where I mean, think about the cases I worked, you know, I wor cases 30, 40 years old.

I didn’t have video surveillance cam, you know, standing in front on the front porch.

I didn’t have digital markers on when, you know, for timelines.

I didn’t have the guy communicating.

This is where you have to get back down to the core.

The core of the case is assessing victimology.

It’s assessing the forensic evidence.

It’s going to be assessing the behavioral actions of the offender and going, are we on the right path? And you know, today, you know, the the forensic aspect I that’s one of the first things I’d focus in on.

If I were pulling being pulled in this case, I’d be going, “What have you done?” You know, have you processed her bed sheets, her comforter, her pillowcases for everything possible? You know, that’s likely, if I understand NY’s victimology, her hearing aids were taken out.

She’s likely asleep.

That’s where the offender is first interacting with her.

You may not see blood there.

What else are do you have? Have you even collected hair evidence? In this day and age, even with shed hair, we have the possibility of identifying who shed that hair.

Have you gone after that? Where else in the house do you see disturbances where you think the offender may have interacted? You have to do that.

And so, you know, like if I were advising the sheriff and and whoever from the FBI is involved, it’s like, okay, let’s let’s let’s kind of do what I would call like an audit of the investigation.

You know, what has been done? Uh what investigative tracks have we gone down? What forensic tracks have we gone down? What um voids do we have? And then if those voids are significant, we need to go down those now because maybe our initial assumptions of what happened in this case were wrong.

I’m literally writing down is it time for an audit of this investigation with people like Paul Holes who have done this kind of thing before.

Thank you so much for all your time and your expertise.

I you know I call you all the time and I’m not going to stop.

I appreciate you Ashley.

Thank you very much for staying on top of this case.

So, there you have it.

Um, obviously there’s so much more to this investigation we don’t know.

I repeat this every time we have an episode.

1 800 call FBI.

If you know anything, 1800 call FBI.

And specifically that piece that I talked to Paul about, if you’re in the Tucson area, did something happen with your car on the night of January 31st to February 1st.

Did your car look like it was missing or parked differently or just something odd? That might be something, you know, like check it.

Go back in your memory.

Did you have a weird thing happen with your car? Is it possible your car could have been stolen, used in a crime, and returned? That’s something, too.

Like all of these little things, something is going to break this case hopefully, but you can be a part of it.

1800 call FBI.

All right.

So, as far as the interview with Savannah, there is more.

It’s coming tomorrow.

That would be Friday, March 27th.

Um, and and Hoda specifically mentioned on Dine.

So, Friday night on Dineine, make sure you tune in to hear the rest of what Savannah had to say.

And maybe there’s more details that she is able to talk about uh that we haven’t yet learned.

In the meantime, thanks so much everyone for listening and for watching and for subscribing.

I so appreciate it.

 

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