Are NEW Nancy Guthrie Notes to TMZ Legit… or From a Scammer, with Will Geddes and James Hamilton

Will, as the as our kidnapping guy, let me start with you on your reaction to the latest.

Well, I don’t put a lot of credibility into Harvey’s reporting on this uh in terms of some of the information he’s sharing.

And I think certainly uh making it fairly more mysterious about obviously the activity on the actual Bitcoin account.

And I’m with you, Megan, completely.

This the sort of thing I would do.

You deposit a very small amount into that Bitcoin account, see whether it gets picked up, and then you follow the trail from there.

But I think the reason why no ransom has been paid to date, regardless of whatever threats have been made, is fundamentally down to a lack of proof of life.

Now, you and I, we’ve spoken about this before.

I’ve done the negotiation on cases where unfortunately the hostage has died.

Uh, and that would be to retrieve the body.

Now there are many many different ways I think they can come at it right now.

Uh I don’t think the trail is necessarily cold.

I think it is cold in terms of uh Puma County.

I think they’re utterly useless and and beyond any kind of sense or reason and I’m sure we’re going to come on to that.

But I think in terms of the fact that they’ve got Sonora in Mexico as a location potentially of where Nancy has been witnessed uh certainly moving about or being with certain kidnappers.

Uh I think there’s some things you can do down there and I think if there is any credibility to some of the claims that have been made.

Uh there’s inevitably going to be number one they could have duplicated across many of those ransom requests.

So it may not just be separate people.

It could be uh one person who’s masquerading as a couple.

And I think also the other issue which is really key is the fact there’s an individual who is unwilling really to help even in an instance where he says or they claim that Nancy has now died uh that they are willing to necessarily help without some sort of payment which would say to me they’re connected to the kidnappers.

Okay, that’s so interesting.

So just to be clear because it’s very confusing.

The ransom notewriter number one, who the FBI thinks is legit, according to Harvey, said, “We are threatening to kill Nancy.

” Yeah.

But did not say they had killed Nancy, or at least they may have, but we haven’t heard that from Harvey or from the FBI.

Mhm.

Ransom notewriter number two, who we who says, “I didn’t I don’t have Nancy, but I know who has Nancy.

” Says she’s dead.

says, “She was alive and time is of the essence for you to make this Bitcoin payment to me, otherwise something bad’s going to happen.

” And then the next day comes out and says, “She’s dead.

” Now she’s dead.

And Harvey, you may have heard in one of those sound bites says, “James, why would he, if he’s a scammer, the second guy saying, “Give me a Bitcoin and I’ll tell you who did it.

” Why would he say she’s dead? Like that doesn’t sound like a scammer.

a scammer would be keeping his fake kidnapping victim that he’s got all the information about alive to keep the incentive to pay him alive.

Well, there’s a couple of things also that Harvey’s saying.

One is persistent.

He he kept saying this individual is persistent, which I equate to, you know, obsessive.

And obsessive is usually what you find with stalkers and people who are mentally not the same as you and me.

And so those are the things I was keying in on.

And you know, live or dead, she know or the person number two that you keep, you know, as we’re separating these two, note notewriter number two, they just want some money.

Dead, alive, it doesn’t matter.

Half a Bitcoin is what, 36 grand? Um, it’s not a lot of money.

And so they they’re grabbing the straws here.

Um, I don’t, you know, I I I feel like the second one, it feels very scammy to me.

Uh, the first one’s interesting.

I I certainly would would like to talk about that a little bit more, but number two, no, I think it Harvey’s not correct.

I think it’s consistent with a scammer.

H All right, let me tell you what the what ransom note writer number two has sent because by my calculation now, it’s a total of five notes.

Um, the one who we’re calling a scammer.

He doesn’t like to be called that, James.

Okay.

Yep.

Wednesday, Wednesday, February 11th was the first one.

was a new note demanding one bitcoin for information on NY’s case sent to TMZ just before 6 a.

m.

And um the sender claimed that they had been unsuccessful in reaching NY’s kids Cameron and Annie by email and text.

TMZ reported okay um that the note reads, “If they want the name of the individual involved, then I want one bitcoin to the following wallet.

Time is more than relevant.

” There is a legitimate Bitcoin address in this note.

It is a different one from the one that was in the original two ransom notes, the ones that we think may have been legit.

Um, okay.

Then comes the next day, Thursday, February 12th.

He writes again just after 9:00 a.

m.

TMZ receives a second email from the same person as the day before.

They complain this person, “I am not being taken seriously.

” Uh, they say he he makes some ominous statements in the email, reported TMZ.

TMZ was cooperating with law enforcement by not disclosing the specifics.

One thing he makes clear, the situation has changed from Wednesday to Thursday.

Harvey’s now revealing that on Wednesday he said she was alive and on Thursday he said she she was dead.

As for why the guy wants a Bitcoin, he says he will need money to lay low after identifying the kidnapper for fear of retaliation.

He also worries he might be quote incriminated like that Carlos, the delivery man who was detained and released by cops by like that guy.

He ends by saying this is his final attempt to help until the next day, February 13th, where he writes again and TMZ reports they just received a third email from the man who claims he knows the identity of the kidnappers.

He has upped his price.

The email says he’s contacting TMZ because he doesn’t trust law enforcement.

He’s using TMZ as an intermediary telling authorities you don’t trust me and I don’t trust you.

There’s another important change reports TMZ.

He says when he gets the initial payment because now remember he was like I’ll get I want half a bitcoin now and half later.

When he gets the initial payment he will give up the name of the main individual return referring to the main individual clearly suggests there are accompllices.

He refers to the current state of Nancy Guthrie will not be specific.

So again this he appears by now to be saying she has died.

That’s number three.

Then we get to number four.

Sunday February 15th.

So that’s four letters in as many days.

And there he claimed uh at 9:36 p.

m.

I know what I saw five days ago south of the border and I was told to shut up.

So I know who he is.

And that was definitely Nancy with them.

So again, trying to titilate.

And then finally, we get to what technically now are notes five and six, but as of this week would be one and two, which we went through, where he demands for one bitcoin to deliver them on a silver platter, saying the offer still stands.

He’s not suggesting Nancy still alive.

In the first note, he does say she is dead.

The first letter letter says, “It’s unbelievable that millions have been wasted, and yet here I am willing to deliver them on a silver platter since the 11th of February for a bitcoin, but I am disregarded as a scam.

They are free and the case is frozen, but the egos remain hot when it comes to me.

” Arrogance at its finest.

Just FYI, the wrong use of the possessive of the apostrophe twice in that last phrase.

They are free and the case is frozen but the egos remain hot.

Egos is eg o apostrophe s incorrectly when it comes to me.

Arrogance at its finest that its should be its instead he puts an apostrophe between the t and the s.

So I’m not sure how well educated our guy here is.

And then um in this same note, the first of this week, but the fifth overall, he tries to distance himself from NY’s kidnapping claiming that he’s been out of the US for more than 5 years and had nothing to do with the quote horrific crime.

Then Harvey talks about the the note on TMZ and the person sends a second one or again by our account now the sixth writing, I saw her alive with them in the state of Sonora, Mexico.

um and says he’s not motivated by greed, insisting, “I just want what’s fair and to live peacefully with enough to start my life again quietly without having to join a witness protection program.

” There’s a lot in there.

All right, so we’re going to stick with the six the six notes before we get to what’s the most interesting, which is the two that we now know the FBI considers legit.

Why? I mean, Will, can you expand on your theory that this guy, he may in fact be the actual kidnapper or connected to the actual kidnapper? Yeah, that’s not uncommon, Megan.

You will have individuals that will try and take on various different personas.

Uh, and it’s it’s almost like casting the widest net they possibly can to see who is going to bite and under what particular narrative are people going to bite.

But I’m with James on this one.

I think this individual is is a scammer.

Uh there’s a lot of desperation behind this and there’s no substantive evidence that’s being given to support his claims that he’s either seen Nancy or he’s actually he knows her specific whereabouts.

Now, anybody unless he’s actually disconnected or not connected to the actual kidnappers, it is someone uh that has literally been uh within the vicinity where they witnessed Nancy.

I would say this individual is still involved in some degree of criminality because otherwise they would work with law enforcement.

I’m sure Savannah I’m sure the bureau would work very well with him and Savannah would be more than willing to pay some kind of bounty probably more than $35,000 to retrieve her mother’s body so that they can give her a civilized uh funeral.

Now the biggest issue that I have is the fact that there’s been zero proof of life.

there’s been zero substantive evidence and until someone can actually give that and I’ve had individuals who have again once you start negotiating onto a new platform where the hostage is actually dead that everybody accepts that they’re dead.

They they they they don’t make any bones about it, everybody knows it and you move progressively on that level and and ultimately any deal that’s that’s done or is struck is inevitably not going to be as good as what was initially maybe demanded.

The56 million mark right at the beginning, Megan, that’s an interesting one because many international insuranceances really will cover on KN&R up to about $5 million.

So, this is potentially someone who does know how the system works to a certain degree.

Okay, James, what do you think? Because one of the issues I have in analyzing the the guy who wrote the six notes, even though the second one was his last communication, is he could get 1.

2 million from the FBI if he can provide information leading to either NY’s body, Nancy, or the kidnappers.

And instead, he’s trying to cash in for the low low price of whatever it is, 72,000 bucks or whatever you can get a Bitcoin for today.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you’re I’m with you on that.

That’s the first thing I thought about was why one Bitcoin when you can get 1.

2 million, but let’s go back to the words.

I think the words are very important and you nailed it.

You know, his his uh my final offer was at letter two and then here come four more.

And so, you know, his bluff, if you will, was called and he’s like, “No.

” And he’s hanging on.

He’s trying anything he can because he just wants to get some money because eventually somebody might pay.

He’s probably done this before and you know they try a lot of different tricks and and one of them is persistence but I I think it’s important he’s also saying some things well two things you mentioned it on language the way in which the apostrophes were used I think when I read the stuff I thought it was English was not the first language of the individual um writing it you know this English is not their first language just by the way some of those sentences were organized um but the second thing is that he knows the case and so that’s you know, to me, very curious.

It’s it’s almost like, you know, a fan of the case and and wants to be recognized in some way, shape, or form.

And that, you know, is why they’re going through TMZ because TMZ is so hot on this thing.

Um, but Will continues to go back to it and and it’s it’s incredibly difficult for me to understand, you know, that we’re here, you know, almost 67 days later.

Um, we have still no one has given us a proof of life.

Okay, this whole thing is unorthodox.

You don’t go through TMZ as an inter intermediary.

You go to the family or you go to law enforcement or both and you try to, you know, get your money.

So, the whole thing has always been very very um unorthodox.

And then the last thing I wanted to say and Will mentioned it was was just with regards um Oh, God.

Go ahead, Will.

I I lost it.

Yeah.

You know what? I I think uh I think James picked up on a really valid point there, Megan.

Um the individuals that uh either are the legitimate kidnappers or are the fanboys or fan girls of a kidnapping and are seeking to exploit it in some shape or form by putting in bogus ransom demands.

their um viewing, their scouring of the media, even potentially watching us and watching your dear self obviously covering this and seeing the various different analysts and pundits that are former agency or former bureau or former my world uh who will actually sort of give their thoughts and ideas of what’s going on.

They’ll be watching all of that avidly and that will have a lot of bearing on how their ops is and inevitably the bureau who’s been sort of front and center on this will be very guarded about their information which is why I’m very cautious about what Mr.

Lean has been saying because I think it’s him speculating on minimal information that he’s been given.

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